[OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

Fri May 18 13:13:13 UTC 2018

@Tim,

I can get you in touch with the people at healthsites.io, they have a model
that is complimentary to OSM to maintain a lot of information about
healthcare around the world where not all attributes can be added to
OpenStreetMap.

2018-05-17 1:17 GMT+02:00 Kathleen Lu <kathleen.lu at mapbox.com>:

> Tim -
> For GDPR, there's not a lot of clarity yet because the regulation is only
> going into effect next week. I suspect in practice, the answer with be that
> the processing is legal because it is to fulfill the contractual terms (of
> the creative commons license requiring attribution, which is a contract
> with the data subject that basically anyone can accept), and then if
> removal is later requested, then you can remove the image in question (or
> just the attribution, if that's what the person prefers) from your site/app
> (this is polite anyway). The person will have to ask each place for
> removal, since each place is using the image is issuing it for their own
> purposes. (Generally, with an open dataset, you're not going to have a list
> of everyone who got the dataset so you can't send them an update.)
> I'm not sure if a photograph catching someone in the background would be a
> problem or not, since they are inadvertently captured and there's no other
> info about them, but I suppose it would be polite to remove or blur the
> photo if someone objected.
> -Kathleen
>
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018, 1:16 AM Tim Frey <tim.frey at iunera.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Kathleen and Tobias,
>>
>> This is some very valuable insight.
>>
>>
>>
>> From our terms of use, we could likely open the content, but you are
>> right – it is about what users think. Hence, we will and can ask them.
>> Thanks a lot for rising this point.
>>
>> One rising concern, when I read your text, Kathleen, is the GDPR – what
>> happens if a user wants content deleted and it is already copied all over
>> the web by an open license. Or even worse, a user uploads a picture of a
>> scenery and there are human faces in the scenery .. and this picture is
>> distributed. I see potential problems here for us and the organizations
>> using the pictures. Additional thoughts please?
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the Wikipedia and in special the Wikivoyage direction also. Does
>> somebody know the best touchpoints to get in contact with the community
>> there?
>>
>>
>>
>> In general, I agree to what you said that manual work for content
>> filtering and legal issues would be needed – what is also one point for us
>> to discuss with the community first: We can provide the software and open
>> source the stuff, but to create valuable content for the specific use
>> cases, we’ll need the community and partners who share common goals to get
>> this successfully going. So all ideas in this direction are welcome, too.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Kathleen Lu <kathleen.lu at mapbox.com>
>> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2018 00:25
>> *An:* Tobias Knerr <osm at tobias-knerr.de>
>> *Cc:* Tim Frey <tim.frey at iunera.com>; talk at openstreetmap.org
>>
>>
>> *Betreff:* Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM
>> App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> Your app and what you hope to do with it both sound interesting. I hope
>> you are successful.
>>
>> Here's some more information on the open licensing front to consider:
>>
>>  - In order to have the legal rights necessary to "open" the material
>> your users contributed, you would likely needed to have gotten a perpetual
>> irrevocable royalty-free license with an unlimited right to sublicense (not
>> limited to only your affiliates, etc), or an assignment, though the latter
>> is far more than needed.
>>
>>  - But would use of the photos/text outside of the STAPPZ app be
>> consistent with your users' expectations for their photos/text? If no, then
>> even if you can legally do it you may be passing an unwelcome burden to an
>> open community.
>>
>>  - What open license would you provide the photos/text under? CC-BY is a
>> common one for photos, though it is not inherently compatible with ODbL
>> (the license for OSM). There is however a waiver template that makes CC-BY
>> it compatible with ODbL: https://blog.openstreetmap.
>> org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/
>>
>> There is the separate issue with CC-BY that users are supposed to
>> attribute the author. Do your users expect/want their names to be
>> attributed to the photos if they are used outside the App? This may raise
>> data privacy issues a well (especially with GDPR coming into enforcement).
>>
>>  - As for open source of the code, you'll have a choice between a
>> permissive license (e.g. MIT, BSD, ISC, DWTFYW) or a copyleft license (e.g.
>> GPL, LGPL) or something in between (MPL, Apache). Permissive licenses make
>> it easier for someone else to take over the project, though there is the
>> possibility that they will take it in a direction you do not like (e.g.,
>> build a new version but not open the code to the new version). Copyleft
>> licenses are intended to guard against this, but most companies do not like
>> working with copyleft code and many ban it, so there would be a smaller
>> pool of potential interest.
>>
>> You can see OSMF's current open source projects here: https://github.com/
>> openstreetmap. The licenses currently used are ISC, BSD, DWTFYW, Apache
>> 2.0, and GPL.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> -Kathleen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:45 PM Tobias Knerr <osm at tobias-knerr.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> On 11.05.2018 17:19, Tim Frey wrote:
>> > Out of this, we consider, heavily, to “open source” the licensing of the
>> > user created STAPPZ content for the OSM community. In addition, we also
>> > consider to open source the backend of STAPPZ and the IOS and Android
>> > app to make a community project out of it.
>>
>> I'm going to split this reply into two parts: About the content, and
>> about the software itself.
>>
>>
>> As for the content, a lot depends on if you can publish the images under
>> the terms of an open license.¹ That's a legal question, but probably
>> also a bit of a social one (i.e. would this be in line with what the
>> creators expected when they shared their images on your app, or would
>> they be unpleasantly surprised/unhappy about this).
>>
>> Assuming the answer is that yes, you can publish them, the next question
>> is what to do with the images. OSM does not currently have an image
>> hosting platform, so if we're only talking about contributing the
>> images, they would need to be donated to a separate platform.
>>
>> The obvious recipient for such an image donation would be Wikimedia
>> Commons, as they're the most popular repository for open-licensed media.
>> Images on Commons can be linked with OpenStreetMap POIs² and are used as
>> such by some OSM-based maps. Of course, they're also used by Wikipedia
>> and its sister projects – notably Wikitravel, which is a crowdsourced
>> travel guide (although much closer to the traditional book format than
>> your project).
>>
>> A caveat is that such a donation would likely require some manual effort
>> to filter out lower-quality pictures or duplicates, and to add
>> meaningful descriptions. Still, assuming the legalities work out, it
>> seems feasible to donate the images and would be a generous contribution
>> to the open content ecosystem.
>>
>>
>> Ok, so let's talk about the app and backend a bit. I'm not sure how
>> familiar you are with OSM's organizational model, but as a rule we're
>> very decentralized – even core components of OSM are being developed as
>> mostly independent Open Source projects. For you, this means that even
>> if there's community interest, any re-use of your project would probably
>> still start out with _you_ spearheading its development, re-imagining it
>> as something you believe fits a need of the OSM community, and trying to
>> gain mindshare in the OSM contributor and developer community. Of
>> course, this may be at odds with your goal to focus on other projects.
>>
>> If this does not discourage you, though, let's consider what needs the
>> software could serve. I don't have any amazing ideas to offer, but I
>> could see two basic roles in the OSM ecosystem an image platform might
>> potentially be able to fill. Broadly speaking:
>> * Images could be used internally by OSM contributors as a data source
>> for mapping in addition to sources as aerial imagery and GPS tracks.
>> * Images could be displayed by user-facing sites and apps alongside OSM
>> data. (I believe this is what you were getting at with your Google Maps
>> comparison.)
>>
>> The former use case is already partially covered by
>> Mapillary/OpenStreetCam, so the question is if there's enough of a niche
>> left for another app.
>>
>> The latter seems more ambitious. As I mentioned before, mappers are
>> currently using tags like image=* with links to external platforms to
>> add images to OSM POI. Those links can technically point anywhere,
>> although Wikimedia Commons currently appears to be the most popular
>> platform to host the images. Inviting users (including non-mappers) to
>> easily contribute images to a dedicated, OSM-affiliated platform might
>> be a worthwhile cause. Not sure how well this fits your platform's
>> existing social features, though.
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>>
>> ¹ Typically one of the open CC licenses: CC0, CC-BY or CC-BY-SA.
>> ² Using http://wiki.osm.org/Key:image
>> or http://wiki.osm.org/Key:wikimedia_commons
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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