[OSM-talk] usefulness of brand:wikipedia and brand:wikidata tags (was Re: Bank of India (and other) Wikidata tags)

Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzalyev at bluewin.ch
Thu Apr 18 19:29:26 UTC 2019


Dear Roland,

I understood well the idea about an external tool and its availability 
in the long run. It makes good sense. I would like just to mention that 
Wikipedia articles change their titles at the drop of a hat.

Wikidata items also change sometimes, but I have never encountered it 
personally. Wikidata items' titles seems to be more stable than 
Wikipedia articles' titles. Wikipedia articles are basically just HTML 
pages for reading by humans.

One more consideration, - it is possible to create a Wikipedia article 
only of a notable object, i.e. if there are several published articles 
or books about it. It is easier to create a Wikidata item (or Wikimedia 
category), than a Wikipedia article.

I mentioned already in this discussion that I could well create the 
Wikidata item (and Wikimedia category) for the historic Yellow Quarry 
(fr. Carrière Jaune) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q62083763 , but I 
still cannot create the Wikipedia article, because I cannot find so far 
any reliable article-worthy sources.

Best regards,
Oleksiy

On 4/18/19 22:02, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Dear Andy,
>
> I would like to use a metaphor:
>
> If I had known that the captain of the Titanic considered the ship
> unsinkable then I had not boarded the ship.
> Not so much because I had been interested in the captain's belief but
> because believing to be unsinkable is way too little for a contingency 
> plan.
>
> The contingency plan for OpenStreetMap is that everyone can still edit
> the map even if the main database were the only website of the world
> that is still available. This works well with a "wikipedia" tag: An
> average person can, from the wording of the page title, still predict
> whether an object in question qualifies for that tag or not, without the
> article available at all.
>
> This does not work with a wikidata tag.
> Without the Wikidata server up and availble the tag is a random number 
> only.
>
> I'm not talking about who has the most reliable server here.
> In practice the things that happen (and all actually have happened in
> one form or another):
> - A provider blocks the IP address block of a particular site because of
> a policy on an adjacent IP address
> - HTTPS is used and the browser or the client's library does not trust
> the certificate or has a conflicting policy
> - A misconfigured carrier grade NAT makes the address inaccessible
> - Wikipedia or other services distinct from openstreetmap.org go on 
> strike
> - a site starts to apply or substantially reduces quotas
>
> I do not presume the Wikidata servers had failed or to do in the
> forseeable future. Serious issues always come from an unexpected
> direction. The engineers of the Titanic have taken precaution for many
> many things and probably simply never thought about icebergs, or not
> hard enough. So please do not try to discuss the issues away.
>
> It is nowadays an engenering virtue to decouple things enough to keep
> each of the parts as simple as possible. That has saved both many lifes
> as well as trillions of dollars.
>
> That said, the free-form tagging paradigm means that it may or may not
> been acceptable to add tags in addition to tags understandable without
> the help of any external tool.  However, it is destructive to replace
> tags understandable without any external tools with tags that require
> external tools, i.e. to remove wikipedia tags in favour of wikidata tags.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Roland
>
>
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