[OSM-talk] Relevance of the “name” tag in places where there is no obvious associated language

[Tomek]

W dniu 19-12-06 o 14:11, Martin Constantino–Bodin pisze:
> Probably the most important point: the goal of the Esperanto community
> is not to overcome English in some kind of epic battle. It is to
> provide language diversity and avoid language imperialism. Hence, the
> main point of the community is not that Esperanto should be used as
> the international language instead of English, it’s that there should
> not be one unique international language: Esperanto should be an
> international language, not the international language ☺ Anyway, the
> Esperanto movement is complex, and some parts of it just states that
> Esperanto should be used for pragmatical reasons as it costs much less
> to teach it than other languages (a good instance of this is
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapport_Grin ).
EO
Problemo estas, ke anglaj imperiistoj volas altrudi sian lingvo al aliaj
nacioj; kaj ne komprenas (ne volas kompreni) se iu skribas en alia
lingvo ol la angla, ĉu estas tiel malfacile uzi tradukilon de
Google/Yandex/Bing?
PL
Problemem jest to, że angielscy imperialiści chcą narzucić swój język
innym narodom; i nie rozumieją (nie chcą zrozumieć) jak ktoś pisze w
innym jeżyku niż angielski, czy jest tak trudno skorzystać z tłumacza
Google/Yandex/Bing?
EN
The problem is that the English imperialists want to impose their
language on other nations; and do not understand (do not want to
understand) how someone writes in a language other than English, is it
so difficult to use Google / Yandex / Bing?



W dniu 19-12-06 o 00:02, Joseph Eisenberg pisze:
>> for smaller seas, I suggest adding names in all official / main languages ​​of adjacent countries, so instead of "Black Sea" there will be:
> Karadeniz Marea Neagră Чорне море | Черно море | Чёрное море | შავი ზღვა
>
> That's fine.
EO
La ĝusta signo por disigi nomojn estas “/”, baldaŭ mi komencos ŝanĝi!
PL
Właściwym znakiem rozdzielającym jest „/”, zaraz zacznę zmieniać!
EN
The correct separator is "/", I will start changing!



W dniu 19-12-06 o 08:04, Maarten Deen pisze:
> On 2019-12-05 22:12, Tomek wrote:
>
>> EN:
>> In what language should the names of interstate objects be: seas /
>> bays, continents, oceans, poles? They are not currently displayed on
>> the default map(1), programs (e.g. OsmAnd, iD and JOSM editors) use
>> the name:LANGUAGE label, so the content of the "name" label is
>> ideological only, not practical.
>
> I disagree that the name tag is ideological. Maybe you use the wrong
> word and meant theoretical? 
EO
Ne havanta praktikan signifon (ĉiuj uzas name:LINGVO), nur por esti tien.
PL
Nie mający praktycznego znaczenia (wszyscy korzystają z name:JĘZYK),
tylko na pokaz.
EN
Not of practical importance (everyone uses the name:LANGUAGE), just for
show.



W dniu 19-12-06 o 10:33, Oleksiy Muzalyev pisze:
>
> For many geographical names there are articles in the Latin version of
> Wikipedia. For example, for the Black Sea:
> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontus_Euxinus
>
> for Poland: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonia , for Canada:
> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada , etc.
>
> So if one wishes to add a name in Latin, i.e. name:la in the editor,
> it is possible just to look it up in the Latin version of Wikipedia.
>
> The Latin language was widely used in the cartography and in science
> in general over the past centuries. For example Isaac Newton's book
> "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica", one of the most
> important works in the history of science, was published in 1687 in
> Latin.
>
> And it is still used in science nowadays. The legacy of the Rēs
> pūblica Rōmāna & Imperium Rōmānum, including its language, is so
> enormous that it can never get extinct. At the same time the Latin
> does not have a standing army any more.
>
> So it is indeed kind of neutral. What is beneficial and safer for
> mappers in some parts. Besides the name in Latin is often recognizable
> for people who speak English, French, German, etc. Even for people
> from the Cyrillic, Chinese, Korean, etc. background it is often also
> understandable, since the Latin alphabet is studied at the elementary
> school.
>
EO
Anstataŭ Latino eblas uzi Interlingvaon:
https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingvao
tio ĉi estas “rekreita kaj simpligita” Latino.
PL
Zamiast łaciny można korzystać z Interlingwy:
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua
https://sites.google.com/site/jezykinterlingua/
jest to coś tak jakby „odtworzona i uproszczona” łacina.
EN
Instead of Latin, you can use Interlingua:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua
it is something like "recreated and simplified" Latin.



W dniu 19-12-06 o 10:53, Maarten Deen pisze:
>>> Still, it is a Good Idea to have one standard (language) to
>>> communicate
>>> or define things, like everything meant for an international public
>>> in
>>> the wiki is English and the tag system is English.
>>
>> you should argue why it is a good idea to have _one_ standard language
>> in the project. IMHO it excludes many billions of people from
>
> Depens on what you use it for. I'm sure you're not arguing for having
> tag names in chinese. These are all in (UK) English. The same goes for
> the majority of the wiki pages geared towards the basis of this
> project. Sure, there are translations (and that is good), but the
> English page is usually the guideline.
> I see nothing bad in that. Yes, it implies that you need to be
> relatively proficient in English to be able to contribute there, but
> what is the alternative? Going to Esperanto or Chinese will put more
> people off the project than it will attract
EO
La ununuraj argumentoj por la angla lingvo estas:
1) ĝi estas jam uzata
2) Usono estis ekonomia potenco dum la 20‑centjaro;
la retpaĝo de OSM estas jam tradukita al EO, iD redaktilo ankaŭ; mi ne
proponas (kaj ne proponos) ŝanĝi OSM‑etikedojn, kutima uzanto ne devas
scii pri OSM‑etikedoj.
PL
Jedynymi argumentami za używaniem języka angielskiego są:
1) jest już używany
2) USA była potęgą ekonomiczną w XX wieku;
strona główna OSM i edytor iD są przetłumaczone na EO; nie proponuję i
nie zaproponuję zmiany tagowania OSM, zwykły użytkownik i tak nie musi
wiedzieć co to tag.
EN
The only arguments for using English are:
1) is already in use
2) the USA was an economic power in the 20th century;
OSM main page and iD editor are translated into EO;I don't suggest and
won't suggest OSM tag change, a regular user doesn't need to know what a
tag is.
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