[OSM-talk] Question regarding public_transport=stop_position

[80hnhtv4agou at bk.ru]

In the united states, chicago a stop position depends on who is driving the train and
 
how many cars.
 
so 6 cars 1 engine or 8 cars 1 engine.
 
From: Joseph Eisenberg
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:04 PM
To: Jack Armstrong
Cc: OSM
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Question regarding public_transport=stop_position
 
This sort of question might be more appropriate for the "Tagging" or
public transport mailing lists.

But yes, there is no need to add public_transport=stop_position nodes
on a highway or railway to show where a train or bus stops, if there
is a highway=bus_stop or railway=platform which is mapped right next
to the highway or railway, and it is clear that the bus or train stops
at the closest point of the highway to the bus stop or platform.

Since most bus stops do not have stop_position nodes, any public
transit routing application will need to be able to deal with this
situation.

However, this issue is controversial, and I'm not surprised that you
are finding conflict when removing the nodes. Generally, I would
ignore them rather than taking the time to delete them, unless they
are make it difficult to edit other features.

There is a long, complex history of how public transit features are
tagged in OpenStreetMap. From what I've read, originally almost all
bus stops were tagged with highway=bus_stop nodes next to the highway,
at the location of the bus stop sign, but railway=tram_stop nodes were
mapped directly on the railway way, with the platform sometimes mapped
separately (if there is a platform - sometimes a tram just stops in
the middle of the street and passengers have to walk across to it from
the sidewalk).

This bothered some mappers who wanted to import public transit data
from their local database, which had all of the nodes mapped on the
railway or highway way. Some started mapped highway=bus_stop with a
node on the highway way, but this lost the information about where the
passengers actually should wait. So, someone who wanted nodes on the
ways proposed public_transport=stop_position for every highway and
railway position where a train or bus stops, and
public_transport=platform as a synonym for highway=bus_stop or
railway=platform.

While some mappers accepted that proposal and started mapping 2 nodes
for every single train stop and platform, most bus stops have
continued to be mapped as only a highway=bus_stop node, and
public_transport=stop_position is rarely used for buses. Generally the
public_transport tags are only used in addition to the original tags.

So it's correct to say that the public_transport tags are almost never
needed. In particular, public_transport=stop_position is very rarely
useful.

(In very rare cases there might be a service road which loops around
behind a bus stop and it might be unclear if the bus stops on the
service road or the main highway - but this would very rarely matter
for public transit riders and general map users. It might matter for
bus drivers, but they should use a separate database which includes
this information.)

-- Joseph Eisenberg


On 4/3/20, Jack Armstrong < jacknstacy at sprynet.com > wrote:
> The wiki for public_transport=stop_position states, “If the stop on the
> public transport route has a defined platform, there is no benefit in adding
> public_transport=stop_position. In these cases, do not use
> public_transport=stop_position to avoid duplication of information and
> confusion.” You can see the wiki page here:
>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:public_transport%3Dstop_position
>
>
> The conversations on the wiki discussion page seem to agree that
> stop_position is not needed where a defined platform exists.
>
>
> I’m mapping railway and light-rail in a metropolitan area. Following the
> above wiki statement, I have removed stop positions where “defined
> platforms” are located. My goal is to follow the wiki, to…the…letter.
> Honestly, I don’t have a preference as to which manner railways are mapped.
>
>
> Recently, another user has contacted me. This user is unhappy that the stop
> positions have been removed. I’ve explained that the wiki states, “…do not
> use public_transport=stop_position to avoid duplication of information and
> confusion.”
>
>
> The user who sent me the complaint has directed me to this diagram:
>
>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Railway_stations#Overview
>
>
> Is the wiki correct? Are we not using stop_position where a defined platform
> exists? If this is incorrect, should the wiki be changed?
>
>
> Again, my only goal is map correctly,
>
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
>
>
>
>

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