[OSM-talk] Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[pangoSE]

See below

PangoSE skrev: (20 augusti 2020 15:55:11 CEST)
>It was certainly not a joke. The tags in OSM are IMO broken and cannot
>handle the social complexity it tries to model.
>
>One of the biggest problems is missing references to on the ground
>truth like e.g. images. 
>How would you e.g. state when you recorded a name from a sign and link
>to the image? You could do it in the changeset information but that
>means that anyone looking for the reference has to download/traverse
>the whole history of the object and find the changeset that changed the
>name.
>
>The problem with that is that it is nearly impossible to e.g. create a
>script that e.g. check how many of our millions of names we have are
>properly referenced with either an URL or a link to an image or a good
>source like say the Swedish Geographical Survey Organizaion
>(Lantmäteriet).
>This means that the community is not able to easily judge whether the
>names we have on objects today are actually real or on the ground truth
>and it is also impossible to e.g. create a list of those that are not
>referenced at all in your local area and look up references and add
>them to the database. 
>
>This is really bad IMO and a suboptimal way of designing a world wide
>database handling cultural references and data about human objects
>sourced from millions of individuals. I would go so far as to say that
>ignoring this problem with missing references makes the names in the
>whole database worthless to use and contribute to because it could just
>be random joe next door sitting on a late night and adding/changing a
>lot of crap names wi h a handful of new accounts to the database
>objects and no-one regularly does QA-checks to see if it has any link
>to reality. 
>
>Additionally the tags and their changes over time is really hard to
>follow on openstreetmap.org (it is much better in JOSM though). Thats
>bad because it means less eyeballs to make sure we have correct
>information. A wiki-like interface for all our metadata would solve
>both these examples and for good reasons wikidata is not the right
>place for this data, but a community run wikibase could probably work
>just fine.
>
>WDYT?
>
>Dave F via talk <talk at openstreetmap.org> skrev: (20 augusti 2020
>14:35:21 CEST)
>>Just caught up with this thread, & I'm unsure if it's a joke.
>>
>>If there are any problems/disagreements with names in OSM then surely 
>>the same problem occurs in Wikiland?
>>
>>DaveF.
>>
>>
>>On 09/08/2020 09:25, pangoSE wrote:
>>> I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and
>updating
>>
>>> names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.
>>>
>>> The rationale is explained here:
>>> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/19655
>>>
>>> This of course affects the whole project and data consumers as well.
>
>>> Every OSM user will have to become a Wikidata user as well to edit
>>the 
>>> names or add name references (through the editors)
>>>
>>> Substantial changes will have to be made:
>>> * nominatim will need to support fetching names from wikidata
>>somehow. 
>>> It could probably be done on the fly.
>>> * openstreetmap.org will need to fetch from wikidata when displaying
>
>>> any object.
>>> * rendering the standard map will have to support fetching from
>>wikidata.
>>> * all editors would have to fetch and enable editing of Wikidata
>>objects.
>>> * maybe it no longer makes sense to have 2 separate logins? We
>should
>>
>>> unify the logging in as much as possible. Ideas are welcome on how
>to
>>
>>> do that. Perhaps retire signing up as OSM user on osm.org and ask 
>>> users to create a Wikimedia account instead and log in with that?
>>>
>>> I personally don't see any problems connecting Wikimedia and OSM 
>>> closer than the islands they are today.
>>>
>>> As mentioned in the ticket above data consumers like Mapbox already 
>>> prefer Wikidata names. I'm guessing thats because they are simply 
>>> better quality, better modeled, better referenced and better
>>protected 
>>> against vandalism.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> pangoSE
>>> Ps I choose this list because this not only relates to tagging, but
>>to 
>>> the wider ecosystem.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> talk at openstreetmap.org
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