[OSM-talk] For the sake of peace | Re: Cease use of OpenStreetMap/Antifa logo

[Rory McCann]

In order to keep the peace, I'll voluntarily delete that image from the 
OSM Wiki (as best I can). But the file is out there in the wild, you 
can't stop the internet.

I am only a random person at a keyboard, I'm too much of a wuss to throw 
stones at cops, I'm not a black block antifa protester! But (IMO) there 
is a problem today with the rise of xenophobia, of queerphobia, etc. I 
made this logo partially for fun, but also one way to oppose that hate. 
To me, it's more than just "for the lulz". Perhaps, in my original 
reply, I appeared too flippant. I make use of emoijis to convey tone, 
which is often lost in text. 🙂 means I want to be friendly.

To me, it's obvious that an OSM based logo doesn't mean OSM is 100% the 
same as that thing. If I make an OSM mash up, I can still see you as a 
fellow OSMer even if you don't agree with what that logo represents. The 
existence of an OSM cycling logo doesn't mean all OSMers have to be 
cycling activists! But perhaps that was not communicated well. I hope 
the community can figure out how to make that clear.

“Keep politics out of OSM” sounds nice, but I question what “politics” 
means here. It's often used only for feminism/pro-LGBTQ/anti-racism (and 
rarely mentioned when a copyright law changes). I think “politics” is 
too ambiguous to be useful when we talk to each other.

For those who see this logo as an OSM/OSMF endorsement, I'd like to see 
an OSM logo remix which, to them, doesn't imply endorsement, so I (and 
others) can design future logo remixes without implying endorsement. I 
never intended, or what to, imply OSMF endorsement, and I would like to 
know how to avoid that.


Let's get back to mapping the world.


Rory

On 13/02/2020 23:01, Rory McCann wrote:
> 
> Hello fellow OSMers! 🙂
> 
> So this is from me. Last year I made some mashups of the OSM logo. There
> is often a lot of big business presence at tech/FLOSS conferences now,
> so I thought “What would be the opposite of that?” I am pretty lefty,
> and I do like OSM's anarchistic/do-ocracy/flat/non-hierarchical
> tradition anyway. So I ordered these stickers for a laugh, and they (&
> the LGBTQ designs) were quite popular.
> 
> I don't believe it breeches the OSMF Trademark policy. §3.5 allows
> remixed logos for user group logos. §3.2 & §3.4 allow the use of
> stickers. (There is plenty of other examples of OSM trademark use BTW
> 😉) I thought it was clear that it didn't reflect OSMF policy, but I'm
> sure I can communicate that better, to avoid all doubt. Mea Culpa. §2.2
> of the Trademark policy does require a more explicit notice, which I've
> now added to the wiki page. §2.3 says I shouldn't suggest OSMF
> endorsement, and I don't want to suggest, or imply, OSMF affiliation or
> endorsement! 🙂 I've added a message the wiki page for that image. Do
> you think that suffices?
> 
> Yes, by definition all democratic societies are "anti-fascist", but even
> I know the logo is more than just "anti-fascist", and... controversial. 🙃
> 
> _However_ I need to think on this. We have a lot of work to do. We have
> a whole world to map. I don't want everyone to fight, or external people
> to get mistaken ideas about OSM. 😞 Someone might have a false idea of
> one thing, and (falsely) think all of OSM is like that.
> 
> That can go both ways: Right wing, bigoted, politicians sometimes claim
> "antifa are violent terrorists" (cf. Trump after the Charlottesville
> rally). “OSM doesn't have a Code of Conduct, and they just banned the
> antifa logo saying it's a horrible violent organization!” could make
> some marginalized groups (falsely) think OSM is full of a certain type
> of hostile person!
> 
> As well as OSM being inherently political, "No politics" can (in
> practice) translate to "Don't act gay, and people are allowed be
> homophobic to you and you can't complain" (etc). If you think it's OK
> for people to act gay/etc in an OSM event, then a "no politics" rule
> communicates quite the opposite (alas). IMO you should rephrase.
> 
> Yes, the OSM community/OSMF should think about what kinds of (political)
> issues we should (& shouldn't) get involved with, and what should be in
> our spaces. (hey... maybe there should be some sort of code of how you
> can conduct yourself in OSM spaces.... 🤔😉😆)
> 
> So I need to think. My email inbox is open if anyone wants to give
> suggestions/(confidential?) advice/tell me to knock it off/tell me to
> keep going. Just cause something is legal, or within the trademark
> policy, doesn't mean it's always a good idea. 🙂
> 
> 
> Yours, in mapping,
> 
> Rory
> 
> 
> P.S.: For the avoidance of doubt: I paid for all these myself. This
> email (& the logo) represent my personal opinions, not those of the OSMF
> board, the OSMF, the OSM project, etc. I paid for these myself. These
> stickers are not part of the newly founded CWG's promotional material
> programme. I designed & got them well before I thought about running
> for the board.
> 
> On 10.02.20 16:57, Midgard wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Someone created a mashup[1] between the logos of OpenStreetMap and 
>> Antifa, a collective of militant
>> groups which are known to use violence. This graphic is distributed on 
>> stickers.[2]
>>
>> I'm asking to cease use of this logo.
>>
>> I think it's a bad idea to create material that associates 
>> OpenStreetMap with political groups.
>> I suspect there are also trademark issues with the mashup.
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:2019_OSM_Anarchist_Antifa_logo.svg 
>>
>> [2] 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Promotional_Material_Programme#Swag_from_Individual_OSMers 
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Midgard
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
> 
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