[OSM-talk] LCCWG Moderation Subcommittee holding public discussions on Etiquette Guidelines

[john whelan]

It would sound as if we almost need to restrict ourselves to a well
understood subset of English.

Aim the reading age at a 6 year old?

Problem is many mappers are quite well educated so using such language
would be difficult for them.

Would and could are extremely useful but are recognised as being quite
advanced in English Second Language teaching.

Again one thing we do perhaps inadvertently is expose many people to
English which can make them more employable etc. so using English as a
native would complete with would and could.

We won't touch idiosyncrasies such as calling a box that moves up and down
a building an elevator.

Perhaps the answer is a simple set of instructions that have been
translated by someone to an approved reading level for clarity.  I think it
is called plain language.

Cheerio John

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 15:40 Amanda McCann <amanda at technomancy.org> wrote:

> Hiya all,
>
> I have seen this complaint a few times now. I think there are 2 problems.
> (i) uncommon "technical" words (aka jargon) and (ii) metaphors and idioms.
>
> e.g. “to dead name [somebody]” is an new English verb which means to refer
> to a transgender person using their old name. Sometimes people do it
> deliberately, in order to misgender a transgender person. “to misgender” is
> another new verb (which isn't even in my Firefox's spellchecker!), which
> means to call someone the wrong gender. Other examples “innuendo”,
> “intimidation”, “retaliation”. For all of these words, one can write a
> dictionary entry, one can define them. Those words are in normal
> dictionaries. These are useful words with specific meanings. We could write
> a dictionary for these words, if that would help. It is good to have these
> technical words. If we do not include those specific words, then (to keep
> the same meaning) we will have to have very long sentences, or use simplier
> words that don't mean the same thing. In English this type of specialist
> langauge is called “jargon” (which also has negative meanings).
>
> This is not just unique to non-native English speakers. Different dialects
> of English have different meanings. I'm a native speaker of Hiberno
> English, and had some of the words from the mod subcttee (et al.) mean
> different things, like “town hall”, ”biweekly”, or “through [time period]”.
>
> (ii) Metaphors, and idioms, are different. e.g. “X is the lifeblood of Y”.
> These can be hard to non-native speakers to understand. I often use
> metaphors & idioms. I am trying to do that less, in order to be understood
> better. Unfortunately, the best way to do this, is to write very simple
> sentences. One must write like a robot. The language that comes out, sounds
> cold, and unfriendly, and distant. This can be hard for native speakers,
> because one wants to sound friendly, and nice, and happy. But it can be
> good to write clearly.
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:34 +02:00, Darafei Praliaskouski via talk <
> talk at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I welcome the intent of guidelines.
> >
> > As non-native speaker, I see some words not being part of my active
> vocabulary:
> >
> >  - see facial expression, hear tone or see other cues - the word "cue"
> >  - are part of the lifeblood of a successful project - the word
> > "lifeblood"
> >  - including deliberate intimidation or harassment - the word
> > "intimidation"
> >  - such as retaliation, personal insults, dead-naming, or innuendo. -
> > words "retaliation", "innuendo". "dead-naming" I know but can foresee
> > that it's not very widely known around my area.
> >
> > It will help others if the grammar structure of text is simplified.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 9:00 PM Steve Friedl <steve at unixwiz.net> wrote:
> > > The LCCWG moderation subcommittee is holding two online public meetings
> > > about the revisions to the current Etiquette Guidelines, which are now
> open
> > > for public comment.
> > >
> > > The draft guidelines are found here, with comments open to Sept 8:
> > >
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Etiquette/Etiquette_Guidelines
> > >
> > > Both online meetings will be held via Big Blue Button in this room:
> > >
> > > https://osmvideo.cloud68.co/user/mag-w4d-2qs-pie
> > >
> > > with two timeslots to accommodate a global audience.
> > >
> > > Meeting #1: Thursday September 2; 1400 UTC
> > >
> > >
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20210902T14&ah=1
> > >
> > >   7 AM Pacific Time (US)
> > >  10 AM Eastern Time (US)
> > >   2 PM UTC
> > >   4 PM Central European Time
> > >
> > > Meeting #2: Friday September 3; 0600 UTC
> > >
> > >
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20210903T06&ah=1
> > >
> > >  11 PM Pacific Time (US; evening of Sept 2)
> > >   2 AM Eastern Time (US)
> > >   6 AM UTC
> > >   8 AM Central European Time
> > >
> > > We welcome participation from the entire OSM community.
> > >
> > > Steve -- for the subcommittee
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Steve Friedl // Software & Network Security Consultant // 714-345-4571
> > > steve at unixwiz.net // Southern California USA // I speak for me only
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > talk mailing list
> > > talk at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > _______________________________________________
> > talk mailing list
> > talk at openstreetmap.org
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> >
>
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