[OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.

Nick Black nickblack1 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 29 11:04:15 BST 2009

2009/4/29 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) <ajrlists at googlemail.com>

> Tom Hughes wrote:
> >Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM
> >To: Nick Black
> >Cc: dev at openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen
> >Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
> >
> >Nick Black wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu
> >> <mailto:tom at compton.nu>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote:
> >>      > Марат Хасанов schrieb:
> >>      >
> >>      >> http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view
> and
> >>     routing
> >>      >> tabs works)
> >>      >
> >>      > Hi,
> >>      > is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org
> >>     <http://openstreetmap.org> site ?
> >>
> >>     I think it's highly unlikely.
> >>
> >> Why's that?
> My personal views inline below....
> >
> >Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to
> >integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion.
> >
> >First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function
> >on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to
> >  provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of
> >things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google
> >Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the
> >production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a
> >number of occasions in the past.
> Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage.Our tools on

the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current

tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its
> configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms
> of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing
> software.

Completely agree that this functionality would be best integrated into
editing software, but OSM has always taken a one step at a time approach.  I
see this as the first step toward the editing tools supporting better
validation of roads for routing.

> >
> >On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we
> >wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed
> >source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a
> >policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to
> >be opposed.
> Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close
> source services.

Even if they make the map better and make life better for mappers?  What is
the real difference between using a GPS unit with closed source software and
using third party web services that are closed source to enhance core OSM

> >
> >Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was
> >acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of
> >that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in
> >an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and
> >Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and
> >the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large.
> >
> >Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik
> >and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as
> >I know) routing service equal space/prominence?
> Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service
> on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider.

Again - definitely agree with this on the grounds that creating competition
within third party developers will lead to better apps for OSM.

> >
> >At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but
> >as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described
> above.
> The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the
> current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims.
> We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the
> community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board
> meeting.

It could be a good idea to get input from the community on their
appreciation of the aims of OSM to help with this.  We should also go far
wider than the small section of the community who are on the mailing list to
make sure we're getting a true feel for people's opinions.

> Cheers
> Andy

Nick Black
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