[Historic] Temporal Tagging - old names

[Tim Alder]

Hello,
I like the python-style for the time range definition and this style 
don't break with OSM-rule of unique keys for each object.

What we should additionally handle is to work with uncertainties.
So in my mind there are different kinds of sources:
*If we found documents with the exact year it's easy:
   name:[year1:year2]
*If we find only two historical maps with a streetname and I know when 
these maps were printed. I know that the street got the name before the 
first map was printed and had this name also after the second, younger map.
(Problem is that changes need in the past some years to come to a map, 
also today it can need a while). In such a case I would propose to use:
   name:[<year1:>year2]
*If a street has the name from a person, it's mostly so that the street 
didn't get the name before the person was born. In our example Emperor 
Wilhelm I. was born 1797. So I would say:
   name:[>1797:1936]=Emperor-Wilhelm-Street
Perhaps somebody comes later with a map that shows that the complete 
street didn't exist at this time. So I hope we find a system that 
becomes better and better over time with the help of many users without 
to be perfect at the first day.

As standard for time we should reference at ISO 8601, so if people know 
it exactly they would be able to use YYYY-MM-DD instead of YYYY.

To make it not to complicated, I hope the gregorian calendar is ok.


Greetings Tim


Am 22.01.2013 19:55, schrieb Christian Quest:
> A couple of weeks ago, I proposed some tagging idea...
>
> The idea is to add a time range to the key part of the tag, example:
>
> The current name is "Place Charles de Gaulle", but until 1970 it was
> "Place de l'Etoile" (located on the upper end of Champ Elysée in
> Paris).
> name[:1970]=Place de l'Etoile
> name=Place Charles de Gaulle
>
> A building was a court house until 1927 and is not a shoe shop (at my
> street corner):
> building=yes
> shop=shoes
> amenity[1905:1927]=court_house
>
> In your case:
>
> name:[:1936]=Emperor-Wilhelm-Street
> name:[1936:1945]=Adolf-Hitler-Street
> name:[1945:1990]=Karl-Marx-Street
> name:[1990:]=Emperor-Wilhelm-Street
> name=Emperor-Wilhelm-Street
>
>
> This is really a draft, if there is some standardization on date range
> syntax (ISO ?) it should be used as much as possible.
>
> The benefit is:
> - compatible with current infrastructure: does not create "ghost"
> rendering of past data
> - no need to change anything in existing databases
>
> To use this additionnal data, you need of course to extract the date
> range and store that in your database the way you want and adapt the
> remaning tools like rendering style sheets.
>
>
> Someone also proposed (on the frech forum) to have a syntax on the value
> side of the tags like:
>
> old_name=[:1936]Emperor-Wilhelm-Street;[1936:1945]Adolf-Hitler-Street;[1945:1990]Karl-Marx-Street
>
> But I'm afraid such a syntax will be broken too easily by people not
> familiar with historical details on tags.
>
>
> 2013/1/22 Rob Warren <warren at muninn-project.org
> <mailto:warren at muninn-project.org>>
>
>     I agree, the ability to tag items with previous names is desirable.
>     What I was thinking is:
>
>       <tag k="old_name" v="Emperor-Wilhelm-Street" end_date="1936"/>
>       <tag k="old_name" v="Adolf-Hitler-Street" start_date ="1936"
>     end_date="1945"/>
>       <tag k="old_name" v="Karl-Marx-Street"  start_date ="1945"
>     end_date="1990"/>
>       <tag k="old_name" v="Emperor-Wilhelm-Street"  start_date ="1990" />
>
>     I realize that this requires a little bit more flexibility /
>     documentation on the part of the mappers, but the above makes it
>     perfectly clear to the renderer which label to use.
>
>     I like the slider idea too.
>
>     rhw
>
>         Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:53:48 +0100
>         From: Tim Alder <tim.alder at s2002.tu-chemnitz.__de
>         <mailto:tim.alder at s2002.tu-chemnitz.de>>
>         Subject: Re: [Historic] Temporal Tagging  - old names
>
>
>         There is also an other OSM-tag we should keep in mind.
>         I mean key "old_name". We already have more than 50.000 of them
>         in the
>         database[1], but no real documentation for it.
>         What I really miss in this feature is a solution for multiple
>         old names
>         and the time span for it. For example we have in Germany a lot of
>         Streets changed there name in this kind:
>         Emperor-Wilhelm-Street -> Adolf-Hitler-Street ->
>         Karl-Marx-Street (East
>         Germany) -> back to Emperor-Wilhelm-Street
>         (...-1936)->(1936-1945)->(__1945-1990)->(1990-...)
>         For some changes we know exactly when it was but not for all.
>
>
>     (...)
>
>
>         As a vision I see a map with a time-slider and all streets
>         change there
>         names if I move the slider.
>
>         Greetings Tim alias Kolossos
>
>         [1]http://taginfo.__openstreetmap.org/keys/old___name
>         <http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/old_name>
>
>
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     Historic mailing list
>     Historic at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Historic at openstreetmap.org>
>     http://lists.openstreetmap.__org/listinfo/historic
>     <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France -
> http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest
> <http://openstreetmap.fr/u/christian-quest>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Historic mailing list
> Historic at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic
>