[OHM] Fwd: [Talk-us] moving data from OSM to OHM - what should the markers be?

Sun May 17 23:36:25 UTC 2015

despite lack of input over on talk-us, i have made some progress in
deciding what to do about the issue with visible remants of old tracks.

in OSM, i enter at least the basic roads as highway=track, with
start_date and end_date when known (which is usually the case
for US and Canada tracks - i have references which are pretty
comprehensive.) additionally, i set disused:highway=raceway which
the OSM renderer ignores. anyone looking at it in JOSM or Potlatch
should be able to figure out what is going on and hopefully either
ignore it or improve it.

in OHM, i give it the full treatment as if it were a real track, with
of course start_date and end_date.

with the tile overlay style display, you end up with this for
Bee Line Dragway (one of the examples):

http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/BeeLine.html

On 5/17/15 5:36 PM, Jeff Meyer wrote:
> cross-posting as FYI!
>
> (good post!)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Richard Welty* <rwelty at averillpark.net
> <mailto:rwelty at averillpark.net>>
> Date: Mon, May 4, 2015 at 6:06 AM
> Subject: [Talk-us] moving data from OSM to OHM - what should the
> markers be?
> To: Talk Openstreetmap <talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:talk-us at openstreetmap.org>>
>
>
> there was a message a couple of weeks ago that i meant to respond
> to but now i can't find it; the gist of it was that it posed some useful
> questions that might be asked in the specific case of when a racing
> surface should be moved from OSM to OHM. similar questions might
> be applied for any other entity that is a candidate to be moved; i'm
> posing this for discussion right now as it rather directly applies to
> issues that are in front of me as i move forward mapping active,
> inactive and defunct racing sites in OSM & OHM. there is also the
> question of what do with partial racing surfaces, no longer usable
> for racing that still have significant physical traces.
>
> i'll start with the last one first. One of the most famous former race
> tracks of them all is Brooklands in Weybridge, Surry in the UK. the
> circuit ceased operations at the start of WWII, and after the war it
> was judged to be too expensive to try to bring it back.
>
> the physical remnants of the Brooklands oval are in OSM, tagged
> highway=raceway (but the existing remnants of the road course are
> not present). i have mostly mapped the original Brooklands oval
> and road course in OHM but one road course segment is missing
> as i have yet to find a decent reference on its location (existing maps
> seem slightly speculative to me.) here is a view which overlays OHM
> on OSM (use the slider to adjust the opacity of the OHM raster image).
>
> http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/Brooklands.html
>
> so the question here really is how should the remnants be tagged?
> (for practical reasons i think the entire historic course belongs in
> OHM.)
>
> one commonly expressed idea is that things should be in OSM as long
> as there are physically identifiable remnants. but should other (non
> geospatial) information be a factor in this decision? i have a number
> of examples from recent mapping work:
>
> Second Creek/Rocky Mountain National/Mile High Dragway
>
> this is a complex just west of the Denver Airport. originally it was
> just the dragway, which shut down for safety reasons (insufficient
> shutdown area at the end of the strip.)  subsequently, Rocky Mountain
> National Speedway was built on top of the north end of the dragstrip,
> and Second Creek Raceway was built to the south, reusing part of
> the drag strip as a straightaway.
>
> everything shut down in 2005; the land was sold for development.
> The oval and road course are just sitting there, but the bulldozer is
> probably not too far off. traces of the drag strip are still visible. Eric
> Wolf entered Second Creek into OHM and i added the dragstrip and
> oval; i believe this choice (OHM vs OSM) was probably correct given
> that there is no hope that these facilities will ever be used again.
> here's a link:
>
> http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/test4.html
>
> (note that the opening date for Second Creek is currently incorrect;
> a correction has been made in OHM but it hasn't trickled out into
> the OHM deployment of Overpass just yet.)
> so, here's a case where there is ample physical evidence, but also
> knowledge
> that the facilities will never, be used again.
>
> and a couple more physical evidence cases that put a very fine point
> on it, i think:
>
> Motor City Dragway:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.7182/-82.6775&layers=N
> Motion Raceway:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/39.5639/-89.0512&layers=N
> Bee Line Dragway:
> http://www.openhistoricalmap.org/#map=16/33.5081/-111.7604&layers=H
>
> note that i haven't been entirely consist here, but i'm looking for
> input on
> these questions.
>
> All three of these tracks are inactive and have been for some time.
> physically
> they are pretty similar, abandoned & deteriorating strips of pavement.
> some
> buildings apparently survive at Bee Line, otherwise all standing
> structures
> have disappeared. as for the chances of revival...
>
> Motor City Dragway was shut down due to town noise ordinances. it will
> not return
> to operation. maybe it should move to OHM because of that.
> Motion Dragway was shutdown due to liability concerns. there have been
> attempts
> to revive it but the property owners have not yet been shown a liability
> policy that
> satisfies their concerns.
> Bee Line Dragway was shut down by the property owners (the Salt River
> Pima/Maricopa
> Indian Community) over liability concerns; they have expressed no
> interest in returning
> it to operation.
>
> so which go into OHM and which go into OSM? or should there be a dual
> existence,
> minimal in OSM and fully documented in OHM?
>
> richard
>
> --
> rwelty at averillpark.net <mailto:rwelty at averillpark.net>
>  Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>  Java - Web Applications - Search
>
>
>
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>
>
> -- 
> Jeff Meyer
> Global World History Atlas
> www.gwhat.org <http://www.gwhat.org>
> jeff at gwhat.org <mailto:jeff at gwhat.org>
> 206-676-2347
>
> OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch
> osm: Open Historical Map (OHM)
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map> / my OSM user
> page <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer>
> t: @GWHAThistory <https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory> / @OpenHistMap 
> f: GWHAThistory <https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory>
>
>
>
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>
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-- 
rwelty at averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search

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