[HOT] including natural disaster data in OSM

Stéphane Henriod s at henriod.info
Wed Apr 4 22:36:10 BST 2012


Thanks Roberto! Too bad we didn't meet up to discuss this at the conference
today...

Unfortunately your link seems to be dead... Is there an alternative URL?

At least we all agree that hazard and risk assessment is key for disaster
management...so now we have to find the best way to include those in (or
around) OSM!

Sent from Android
Le 4 avr. 2012 23:26, "Roberto Colombo" <robertcolombo at gmail.com> a écrit :

> plese check the who-eatlas.org/Africa  and europe and emro to check sme
> rasters to ve used..we developed that trough the VRAM project at WHO..could
> this be helpfull? i might ask if this couls be added as I was engaged in
> the project and the methodology is public,y available..if anyone wants to
> replicate it I think ther would be no problem..
> Risk assessments are ke for prepardness awarness and as discussed today at
> the U
> GIS for Un meeting it's in many peoplmes mind...I advocate kfor that!
> roert colombo
>
> Enviat des de l'Ipad de l'Eva, l'Africa i en Robert.
>
> El 04/04/2012, a les 19:43, hot-request at openstreetmap.org va escriure:
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> >      (Kate Chapman)
> >   2. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model? (Fran Boon)
> >   3. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> >      (Eric Lovell)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:18:58 -0700
> > From: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> > To: St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAGn7mOo0jjt2xdBGeF726JHgz8mjNs9CWYEyX1bEwMJHARoSMg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hi St?phane,
> >
> > The issue I see is more that it will depend on the type of hazard data.
> > OpenStreetMap is usually used to map things that are visible on the
> > ground.  I see it being difficult for some types of hazards to be
> collected
> > by the average person (not to say for some types it isn't easier).  I'm
> not
> > saying it is less relevant to humanitarian actors, I'm saying that it
> > perhaps is better in another store and to be compared with OpenStreetMap
> > data.
> >
> > People combine data with OSM data all the time.  Everything isn't either
> an
> > in or out proposition.  I think it is important to have relevant and
> > updatable information in OSM and be able to utilize it with other
> > information that might be less practical for us to collect.
> >
> > -Kate
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:35 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Kate,
> >>
> >> I am browsing through inasafe website and it seems indeed pretty
> >> interesting and relevant for the issues I raised in my first email.
> >>
> >> However, I believe that it is complementary rather than conflicting:
> what
> >> I would aim at is the possibility to collect hazard data in an
> >> OSM-compliant format that could, in turn, be used for risk analysis, for
> >> example with InaSAFE.
> >>
> >> I see your point that hazard data (flood-prone areas, recurrent
> >> landslides, seismic zones...) might need to be located out of the main
> OSM
> >> DB, but I would be interested to read whether this opinion is mostly
> shared
> >> by other HOT members? What I mean is: is the hazard data really less
> >> relevant to the humanitarian and to the overall communities than the
> >> blocked roads, the IDPs locations or the Search and Rescue zones? IMHO,
> >> they would fall in the same category, so either everything in the main
> OSM
> >> DB, or everything out of it. Does that sound silly?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot for replying to me, and looking forward to engage the
> >> discussion with any other member that would feel interested!
> >>
> >>
> >> St?phane
> >> --
> >> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >> malheureux" -- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >> enough in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet
> soon
> >> it is the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>
> >> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>
> >> Skype: [image: Skype name: marmotte_la_gueuse]
> >> Tajik mobile phone: +992 934 62 46 62
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 17:06, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello St?phane,
> >>>
> >>> I don't think it would really make sense to add many of those types of
> >>> hazards to OpenStreetMap.  We've collected information such as areas
> >>> prone to flooding before but the actual hazard models should probably
> >>> stay separate.  They can be combined with OpenStreetMap information
> >>> however to create impact models.
> >>>
> >>> This is something currently being done by AIFDR and GFDRR with
> >>> InaSAFE: https://github.com/AIFDR/inasafe
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> -Kate
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:14 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> wrote:
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am relatively new to OSM and completely new to Humanitarian OSM but
> >>>> extremely enthusiastic about both projects and would like to
> contribute
> >>> in a
> >>>> way that I will describe below, and for which I would appreciate your
> >>>> feedback and ideas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency
> is
> >>>> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What
> >>> strikes me
> >>>> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for
> natural
> >>>> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis,
> >>> humanitarian
> >>>> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides,
> >>> avalanches
> >>>> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where
> roads
> >>>> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected).
> Seismic
> >>>> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish
> data
> >>> is
> >>>> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake
> >>> Model
> >>>> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is
> >>> thus
> >>>> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for
> >>> natural
> >>>> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >>>>
> >>>> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge
> of
> >>>> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple,
> >>> which is
> >>>> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a
> >>> landslide, a
> >>>> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement"
> >>> might be
> >>>> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made
> between
> >>>> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might
> or
> >>>> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been
> >>> actually
> >>>> triggered).
> >>>>
> >>>> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to check
> >>> with
> >>>> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to
> >>> pursue
> >>>> it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks a lot in advance and look forward to reading your comments,
> >>>>
> >>>> St?phane
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>> malheureux"
> >>>> -- Albert Einstein
> >>>>
> >>>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>> enough
> >>>> in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon it
> >>> is
> >>>> the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>>
> >>>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> HOT mailing list
> >>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> HOT mailing list
> >> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>
> >>
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:39:34 +0100
> > From: Fran Boon <francisboon at gmail.com>
> > To: St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAPKzktK6ARxj7Et3+7VfAco+y7rUDGP4i7hjyyc_KaWXJccTbA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 4 April 2012 15:14, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency is
> >> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What
> strikes me
> >> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for natural
> >> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis,
> humanitarian
> >> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides,
> avalanches
> >> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where roads
> >> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected). Seismic
> >> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish data
> is
> >> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake
> Model
> >> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is
> thus
> >> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for
> natural
> >> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge of
> >> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple,
> which is
> >> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a
> landslide, a
> >> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement"
> might be
> >> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made between
> >> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might or
> >> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been
> actually
> >> triggered).
> >> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to check
> with
> >> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to
> pursue
> >> it.
> >
> > Hi St?phane,
> >
> > I would concur with Kate that within the OSM DB doesn't seem like the
> > best place to store it, but rather a place where it can be overlaid
> > with the OSM DB.
> >
> > I'd be really interested to see if Sahana would make a good place to
> > store this data: http://eden.sahanafoundation.org
> > We don't currently include Hazard data models, but rather just overlay
> > sources from elsewhere (typically WMS), but we would be very
> > interested in actually having these within the Sahana database.
> > I know that the Red Cross are interested in adding this to their
> > Sahana deployment.
> >
> > Thoughts on this approach welcomed :)
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Fran.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:43:01 -0700
> > From: Eric Lovell <eric.j.lovell at gmail.com>
> > To: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CANKh64NavYh-fGD=7Rj_tibAJ4DX-zFztTMjbCioHfCY2j9x-w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > By assuming that the 'average person' is unable to collect relevant
> hazard
> > information, are we not claiming that only empirical top-down information
> > should be considered? Shouldn't place-based knowledge systems be the most
> > relevant systems for place-based hazards...that is "things that are on
> the
> > ground"? Isn't this counter intuitive to initiatives to 'democratize'
> data?
> >
> > I have no input as to whether this type of information should be
> > incorporated into OSM. I think both Kate and St?phane have valid points.
> > Just food for thought.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi St?phane,
> >>
> >> The issue I see is more that it will depend on the type of hazard data.
> >> OpenStreetMap is usually used to map things that are visible on the
> >> ground.  I see it being difficult for some types of hazards to be
> collected
> >> by the average person (not to say for some types it isn't easier).  I'm
> not
> >> saying it is less relevant to humanitarian actors, I'm saying that it
> >> perhaps is better in another store and to be compared with OpenStreetMap
> >> data.
> >>
> >> People combine data with OSM data all the time.  Everything isn't either
> >> an in or out proposition.  I think it is important to have relevant and
> >> updatable information in OSM and be able to utilize it with other
> >> information that might be less practical for us to collect.
> >>
> >> -Kate
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:35 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Kate,
> >>>
> >>> I am browsing through inasafe website and it seems indeed pretty
> >>> interesting and relevant for the issues I raised in my first email.
> >>>
> >>> However, I believe that it is complementary rather than conflicting:
> what
> >>> I would aim at is the possibility to collect hazard data in an
> >>> OSM-compliant format that could, in turn, be used for risk analysis,
> for
> >>> example with InaSAFE.
> >>>
> >>> I see your point that hazard data (flood-prone areas, recurrent
> >>> landslides, seismic zones...) might need to be located out of the main
> OSM
> >>> DB, but I would be interested to read whether this opinion is mostly
> shared
> >>> by other HOT members? What I mean is: is the hazard data really less
> >>> relevant to the humanitarian and to the overall communities than the
> >>> blocked roads, the IDPs locations or the Search and Rescue zones? IMHO,
> >>> they would fall in the same category, so either everything in the main
> OSM
> >>> DB, or everything out of it. Does that sound silly?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot for replying to me, and looking forward to engage the
> >>> discussion with any other member that would feel interested!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> St?phane
> >>> --
> >>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>> malheureux" -- Albert Einstein
> >>>
> >>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>> enough in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet
> soon
> >>> it is the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>
> >>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>
> >>> Skype: [image: Skype name: marmotte_la_gueuse]
> >>> Tajik mobile phone: +992 934 62 46 62
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 17:06, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello St?phane,
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think it would really make sense to add many of those types of
> >>>> hazards to OpenStreetMap.  We've collected information such as areas
> >>>> prone to flooding before but the actual hazard models should probably
> >>>> stay separate.  They can be combined with OpenStreetMap information
> >>>> however to create impact models.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is something currently being done by AIFDR and GFDRR with
> >>>> InaSAFE: https://github.com/AIFDR/inasafe
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> -Kate
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:14 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am relatively new to OSM and completely new to Humanitarian OSM but
> >>>>> extremely enthusiastic about both projects and would like to
> >>>> contribute in a
> >>>>> way that I will describe below, and for which I would appreciate your
> >>>>> feedback and ideas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency
> >>>> is
> >>>>> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What
> >>>> strikes me
> >>>>> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for
> natural
> >>>>> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis,
> >>>> humanitarian
> >>>>> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides,
> >>>> avalanches
> >>>>> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where
> >>>> roads
> >>>>> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected).
> Seismic
> >>>>> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish
> >>>> data is
> >>>>> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake
> >>>> Model
> >>>>> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is
> >>>> thus
> >>>>> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for
> >>>> natural
> >>>>> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge
> of
> >>>>> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple,
> >>>> which is
> >>>>> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a
> >>>> landslide, a
> >>>>> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement"
> >>>> might be
> >>>>> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made
> between
> >>>>> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might
> >>>> or
> >>>>> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been
> >>>> actually
> >>>>> triggered).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to
> check
> >>>> with
> >>>>> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to
> >>>> pursue
> >>>>> it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks a lot in advance and look forward to reading your comments,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> St?phane
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>>> malheureux"
> >>>>> -- Albert Einstein
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>>> enough
> >>>>> in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon
> it
> >>>> is
> >>>>> the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> HOT mailing list
> >>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> HOT mailing list
> >>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> HOT mailing list
> >> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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> > **********************************
>
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