[HOT] including natural disaster data in OSM

Thu Apr 5 00:16:50 BST 2012

http://www.who-eatlas.org/africa/
it should be working! try now

Enviat des de l'Ipad de l'Eva, l'Africa i en Robert.

El 04/04/2012, a les 22:36, Stéphane Henriod <s at henriod.info> va escriure:
> Thanks Roberto! Too bad we didn't meet up to discuss this at the conference today...
> 
> Unfortunately your link seems to be dead... Is there an alternative URL?
> 
> At least we all agree that hazard and risk assessment is key for disaster management...so now we have to find the best way to include those in (or around) OSM!
> 
> Sent from Android
> 
> Le 4 avr. 2012 23:26, "Roberto Colombo" <robertcolombo at gmail.com> a écrit :
> plese check the who-eatlas.org/Africa  and europe and emro to check sme rasters to ve used..we developed that trough the VRAM project at WHO..could this be helpfull? i might ask if this couls be added as I was engaged in the project and the methodology is public,y available..if anyone wants to replicate it I think ther would be no problem..
> Risk assessments are ke for prepardness awarness and as discussed today at the U
> GIS for Un meeting it's in many peoplmes mind...I advocate kfor that!
> roert colombo
> 
> Enviat des de l'Ipad de l'Eva, l'Africa i en Robert.
> 
> El 04/04/2012, a les 19:43, hot-request at openstreetmap.org va escriure:
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> >      (Kate Chapman)
> >   2. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model? (Fran Boon)
> >   3. Re: Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> >      (Eric Lovell)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:18:58 -0700
> > From: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> > To: St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAGn7mOo0jjt2xdBGeF726JHgz8mjNs9CWYEyX1bEwMJHARoSMg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hi St?phane,
> >
> > The issue I see is more that it will depend on the type of hazard data.
> > OpenStreetMap is usually used to map things that are visible on the
> > ground.  I see it being difficult for some types of hazards to be collected
> > by the average person (not to say for some types it isn't easier).  I'm not
> > saying it is less relevant to humanitarian actors, I'm saying that it
> > perhaps is better in another store and to be compared with OpenStreetMap
> > data.
> >
> > People combine data with OSM data all the time.  Everything isn't either an
> > in or out proposition.  I think it is important to have relevant and
> > updatable information in OSM and be able to utilize it with other
> > information that might be less practical for us to collect.
> >
> > -Kate
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:35 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Kate,
> >>
> >> I am browsing through inasafe website and it seems indeed pretty
> >> interesting and relevant for the issues I raised in my first email.
> >>
> >> However, I believe that it is complementary rather than conflicting: what
> >> I would aim at is the possibility to collect hazard data in an
> >> OSM-compliant format that could, in turn, be used for risk analysis, for
> >> example with InaSAFE.
> >>
> >> I see your point that hazard data (flood-prone areas, recurrent
> >> landslides, seismic zones...) might need to be located out of the main OSM
> >> DB, but I would be interested to read whether this opinion is mostly shared
> >> by other HOT members? What I mean is: is the hazard data really less
> >> relevant to the humanitarian and to the overall communities than the
> >> blocked roads, the IDPs locations or the Search and Rescue zones? IMHO,
> >> they would fall in the same category, so either everything in the main OSM
> >> DB, or everything out of it. Does that sound silly?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot for replying to me, and looking forward to engage the
> >> discussion with any other member that would feel interested!
> >>
> >>
> >> St?phane
> >> --
> >> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >> malheureux" -- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >> enough in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon
> >> it is the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>
> >> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>
> >> Skype: [image: Skype name: marmotte_la_gueuse]
> >> Tajik mobile phone: +992 934 62 46 62
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 17:06, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello St?phane,
> >>>
> >>> I don't think it would really make sense to add many of those types of
> >>> hazards to OpenStreetMap.  We've collected information such as areas
> >>> prone to flooding before but the actual hazard models should probably
> >>> stay separate.  They can be combined with OpenStreetMap information
> >>> however to create impact models.
> >>>
> >>> This is something currently being done by AIFDR and GFDRR with
> >>> InaSAFE: https://github.com/AIFDR/inasafe
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> -Kate
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:14 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am relatively new to OSM and completely new to Humanitarian OSM but
> >>>> extremely enthusiastic about both projects and would like to contribute
> >>> in a
> >>>> way that I will describe below, and for which I would appreciate your
> >>>> feedback and ideas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency is
> >>>> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What
> >>> strikes me
> >>>> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for natural
> >>>> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis,
> >>> humanitarian
> >>>> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides,
> >>> avalanches
> >>>> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where roads
> >>>> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected). Seismic
> >>>> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish data
> >>> is
> >>>> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake
> >>> Model
> >>>> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >>>>
> >>>> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is
> >>> thus
> >>>> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for
> >>> natural
> >>>> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >>>>
> >>>> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge of
> >>>> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple,
> >>> which is
> >>>> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a
> >>> landslide, a
> >>>> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement"
> >>> might be
> >>>> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made between
> >>>> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might or
> >>>> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been
> >>> actually
> >>>> triggered).
> >>>>
> >>>> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to check
> >>> with
> >>>> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to
> >>> pursue
> >>>> it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks a lot in advance and look forward to reading your comments,
> >>>>
> >>>> St?phane
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>> malheureux"
> >>>> -- Albert Einstein
> >>>>
> >>>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>> enough
> >>>> in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon it
> >>> is
> >>>> the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>>
> >>>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> HOT mailing list
> >>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> HOT mailing list
> >> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>
> >>
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 19:39:34 +0100
> > From: Fran Boon <francisboon at gmail.com>
> > To: St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAPKzktK6ARxj7Et3+7VfAco+y7rUDGP4i7hjyyc_KaWXJccTbA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 4 April 2012 15:14, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency is
> >> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What strikes me
> >> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for natural
> >> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis, humanitarian
> >> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides, avalanches
> >> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where roads
> >> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected). Seismic
> >> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish data is
> >> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake Model
> >> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is thus
> >> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for natural
> >> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge of
> >> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple, which is
> >> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a landslide, a
> >> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement" might be
> >> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made between
> >> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might or
> >> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been actually
> >> triggered).
> >> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to check with
> >> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to pursue
> >> it.
> >
> > Hi St?phane,
> >
> > I would concur with Kate that within the OSM DB doesn't seem like the
> > best place to store it, but rather a place where it can be overlaid
> > with the OSM DB.
> >
> > I'd be really interested to see if Sahana would make a good place to
> > store this data: http://eden.sahanafoundation.org
> > We don't currently include Hazard data models, but rather just overlay
> > sources from elsewhere (typically WMS), but we would be very
> > interested in actually having these within the Sahana database.
> > I know that the Red Cross are interested in adding this to their
> > Sahana deployment.
> >
> > Thoughts on this approach welcomed :)
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Fran.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 11:43:01 -0700
> > From: Eric Lovell <eric.j.lovell at gmail.com>
> > To: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> > Cc: HOT at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [HOT] Including natural hazards in the HOSM data model?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CANKh64NavYh-fGD=7Rj_tibAJ4DX-zFztTMjbCioHfCY2j9x-w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > By assuming that the 'average person' is unable to collect relevant hazard
> > information, are we not claiming that only empirical top-down information
> > should be considered? Shouldn't place-based knowledge systems be the most
> > relevant systems for place-based hazards...that is "things that are on the
> > ground"? Isn't this counter intuitive to initiatives to 'democratize' data?
> >
> > I have no input as to whether this type of information should be
> > incorporated into OSM. I think both Kate and St?phane have valid points.
> > Just food for thought.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi St?phane,
> >>
> >> The issue I see is more that it will depend on the type of hazard data.
> >> OpenStreetMap is usually used to map things that are visible on the
> >> ground.  I see it being difficult for some types of hazards to be collected
> >> by the average person (not to say for some types it isn't easier).  I'm not
> >> saying it is less relevant to humanitarian actors, I'm saying that it
> >> perhaps is better in another store and to be compared with OpenStreetMap
> >> data.
> >>
> >> People combine data with OSM data all the time.  Everything isn't either
> >> an in or out proposition.  I think it is important to have relevant and
> >> updatable information in OSM and be able to utilize it with other
> >> information that might be less practical for us to collect.
> >>
> >> -Kate
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:35 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Kate,
> >>>
> >>> I am browsing through inasafe website and it seems indeed pretty
> >>> interesting and relevant for the issues I raised in my first email.
> >>>
> >>> However, I believe that it is complementary rather than conflicting: what
> >>> I would aim at is the possibility to collect hazard data in an
> >>> OSM-compliant format that could, in turn, be used for risk analysis, for
> >>> example with InaSAFE.
> >>>
> >>> I see your point that hazard data (flood-prone areas, recurrent
> >>> landslides, seismic zones...) might need to be located out of the main OSM
> >>> DB, but I would be interested to read whether this opinion is mostly shared
> >>> by other HOT members? What I mean is: is the hazard data really less
> >>> relevant to the humanitarian and to the overall communities than the
> >>> blocked roads, the IDPs locations or the Search and Rescue zones? IMHO,
> >>> they would fall in the same category, so either everything in the main OSM
> >>> DB, or everything out of it. Does that sound silly?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot for replying to me, and looking forward to engage the
> >>> discussion with any other member that would feel interested!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> St?phane
> >>> --
> >>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>> malheureux" -- Albert Einstein
> >>>
> >>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>> enough in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon
> >>> it is the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>
> >>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>
> >>> Skype: [image: Skype name: marmotte_la_gueuse]
> >>> Tajik mobile phone: +992 934 62 46 62
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 17:06, Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello St?phane,
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think it would really make sense to add many of those types of
> >>>> hazards to OpenStreetMap.  We've collected information such as areas
> >>>> prone to flooding before but the actual hazard models should probably
> >>>> stay separate.  They can be combined with OpenStreetMap information
> >>>> however to create impact models.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is something currently being done by AIFDR and GFDRR with
> >>>> InaSAFE: https://github.com/AIFDR/inasafe
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> -Kate
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:14 AM, St?phane Henriod <s at henriod.info> wrote:
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am relatively new to OSM and completely new to Humanitarian OSM but
> >>>>> extremely enthusiastic about both projects and would like to
> >>>> contribute in a
> >>>>> way that I will describe below, and for which I would appreciate your
> >>>>> feedback and ideas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most humanitarian actors agree that the best response to an emergency
> >>>> is
> >>>>> preparedness, not only in terms of behaviors but also data. What
> >>>> strikes me
> >>>>> when I look at HOSM data model is that I don't see anything for natural
> >>>>> hazard delineation, for example. When responding to a crisis,
> >>>> humanitarian
> >>>>> actors might want to know in advance where to expect landslides,
> >>>> avalanches
> >>>>> and floods areas (for their own safety but also to "predict" where
> >>>> roads
> >>>>> might be blocked or where facilities might have been affected). Seismic
> >>>>> zonation is something that can be directly included in OSM; oldish
> >>>> data is
> >>>>> freely available from the GSHAP project, while the GlobalEarthquake
> >>>> Model
> >>>>> will provide with a more modern version in a few years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My question to the active and experienced members of the community is
> >>>> thus
> >>>>> the following: would you see any relevance to develop classes for
> >>>> natural
> >>>>> (and man-made?) hazards to be included in HOSM framework?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As we can not expect the communities to have the technical knowledge of
> >>>>> hazard scientists, the ontology would have to remain quite simple,
> >>>> which is
> >>>>> probably ok for humanitarian actors (who cares whether it's a
> >>>> landslide, a
> >>>>> rockfall or a debris flow? a general category "earth mass movement"
> >>>> might be
> >>>>> sufficient for our purpose). Also, a distinction should be made between
> >>>>> "usual" events (those that occur relatively frequently but that might
> >>>> or
> >>>>> might not be currently triggered) and actual events (that have been
> >>>> actually
> >>>>> triggered).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Many challenges ahead but before diving into it, I would like to check
> >>>> with
> >>>>> you if this idea has already been discussed and if it makes sense to
> >>>> pursue
> >>>>> it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks a lot in advance and look forward to reading your comments,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> St?phane
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> "Le mot progr?s n'aura aucun sens tant qu'il y aura des enfants
> >>>> malheureux"
> >>>>> -- Albert Einstein
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "A journey does not need reasons. Before long, it proves to be reason
> >>>> enough
> >>>>> in itself. One thinks that one is going to make a journey, yet soon it
> >>>> is
> >>>>> the journey that makes or unmakes you." -- Nicolas Bouvier
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Photos de voyages, photos de montagne: http://www.henriod.info
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> HOT mailing list
> >>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> HOT mailing list
> >>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> HOT mailing list
> >> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >>
> >>
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