[HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?

Jean-Guilhem Cailton jgc at arkemie.com
Thu Feb 2 23:37:35 GMT 2012


Hi,

- A suggestion to make WB realize what they are getting into would be to
have them go in practice through a little merging exercise of a freed
external dataset with existing OSM data. Maybe they would realize how
complex this is. And how important the context data used in
crowdsourcing input is. (Assuming of course that they really mean what
they say about free data).


- If they only care about not getting sued, how does a potential
"complicity in abuse of dominant position" sound? (In addition and after
all the problems Gogol has had in respecting the intellectual property
of others, of course. They have a significant track record of
misappropriating it).

See e.g. :
http://www.numerama.com/magazine/21483-google-condamne-en-france-une-tres-bonne-decision.html
http://www.ecrans.fr/Google-Maps-condamne-en-France,13992.html

Translated by themselves:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.numerama.com/magazine/21483-google-condamne-en-france-une-tres-bonne-decision.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecrans.fr%2FGoogle-Maps-condamne-en-France%2C13992.html

Best wishes,

Jean-Guilhem


Le 02/02/2012 23:38, Mikel Maron a écrit :
> Is that too much to ask Google? They don't take requests....
>  
> PS Yes they have lawyers. But not ones that care about open data, only
> about not getting sued. Clearly no one who knew any of this in
> practice was consulted for the MoU. But yes, talking about open data
> the concepts can be obscure ... I tried to illustrate the realities
> with some mapping stories: http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756
>
> PPS I don't think that's the root cause for the Bank (though it's
> clearly something OSM needs to improve. note, I don't think GMM has
> the best UI either). Rather, I think they are seduced by the
> association with the most powerful company in the world, which is sexy.
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Chris Blow <cgblow at gmail.com>
>     *To:* hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:12 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>
>     Hi Mikel, 
>
>     While there are several clear solutions that are unrealistic to
>     propose in your meeting, I would just like to see a tool that
>     allows users to to export data most of the data that they create
>     in Google Maps.
>
>     Is that too much to ask? I can see that a technical barrier would
>     be an way to differentiate between original user data entry and
>     modifications of existing data. If someone edits a big interchange
>     with a 5 year history of 99% proprietary edits, Google isn't going
>     to give that data back. But if you are mapping completely new
>     roads and POIs in the developing world ... you should be able to
>     do a significant export.
>
>     PS I don't understand how the WB got itself into this, aren't they
>     all lawyers? How can OSM make it clearer that there is a cost to
>     using proprietary data? It has a toxic touch.
>
>     PPS it seems like better UX and design at OSM could be the root
>     cause of them working with Google in the first place — does this
>     seem accurate? Or are there deeper
>     architectural/technical/business reasons that WB is going with Google?
>
>
>     c
>
>
>
>     On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>
>>     They're talking about me. Don't get too excited. I'll probably
>>     have a lot more to say soon. Would love to hear some feedback ...
>>      
>>     * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>         *From:* Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es
>>         <mailto:ivan at sanchezortega.es>>
>>         *To:* hot at openstreetmap.org <mailto:hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>         *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2012 1:37 PM
>>         *Subject:* [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>
>>         Hi all,
>>
>>
>>         A news item got my attention a few minutes ago:
>>
>>         http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd
>>
>>         Quote:
>>
>>         «Aleem Walji, practice manager of the World Bank's innovation
>>         practice, said
>>         Thursday that he would be sitting down with people from [...]
>>         the open-source
>>         mapping group OpenStreetMap to discuss a partnership between
>>         the bank and
>>         Google that would see the search giant's Google Map Maker
>>         tool put to use in
>>         developing countries.»
>>
>>
>>         I'm wondering if they refer to someone from the OSM
>>         Foundation, or someone
>>         from HOT. I'd love to see some feedback regarding this issue
>>         over this
>>         mailing list.
>>
>>
>>         Best,
>>         -- 
>>         Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es
>>         <mailto:ivan at sanchezortega.es>> <ivan at geonerd.org
>>         <mailto:ivan at geonerd.org>>
>>
>>         Here I come when I better go
>>         I say yes when I ought to say no
>>                                                         --
>>         Dragonnette, I come around
>>
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>>
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-- 
gpg 0x5939EAE2

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