[HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?

Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com
Fri Feb 3 00:15:09 GMT 2012


Parrot
CommonMap.org
Parrot...


Why doesn't anyone listen?


A dedicated API that looks and feels like OpenStreetMap, but allows
for all data to be injected, and everyone to take what they want for
their own maps.


.... Groundhog day....


On 2/2/12, Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Good point ... I'm not sure that anyone involved has actually tried such a
> merge, or even lighter weight data munging exercises.
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Jean-Guilhem Cailton <jgc at arkemie.com>
>>To: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
>>Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 6:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>- A suggestion to make WB realize what they are getting into would
>     be to have them go in practice through a little merging exercise of
>     a freed external dataset with existing OSM data. Maybe they would
>     realize how complex this is. And how important the context data used
>     in crowdsourcing input is. (Assuming of course that they really mean
>     what they say about free data).
>>
>>
>>- If they only care about not getting sued, how does a potential
>     "complicity in abuse of dominant position" sound? (In addition and
>     after all the problems Gogol has had in respecting the intellectual
>     property of others, of course. They have a significant track record
>     of misappropriating it).
>>
>>See e.g. :
>>http://www.numerama.com/magazine/21483-google-condamne-en-france-une-tres-bonne-decision.html
>>http://www.ecrans.fr/Google-Maps-condamne-en-France,13992.html
>>
>>Translated by themselves:
>>http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=fr&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.numerama.com/magazine/21483-google-condamne-en-france-une-tres-bonne-decision.html
>>http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecrans.fr%2FGoogle-Maps-condamne-en-France%2C13992.html
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>Jean-Guilhem
>>
>>
>>Le 02/02/2012 23:38, Mikel Maron a écrit :
>>Is that too much to ask Google? They don't take requests....
>>>
>>>PS Yes they have lawyers. But not ones that care about open data, only
>>> about not getting sued. Clearly no one who knew any of this in practice
>>> was consulted for the MoU. But yes, talking about open data the concepts
>>> can be obscure ... I tried to illustrate the realities with some mapping
>>> stories: http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756
>>>
>>>
>>>PPS I don't think that's the root cause for the Bank (though it's clearly
>>> something OSM needs to improve. note, I don't think GMM has the best UI
>>> either). Rather, I think they are seduced by the association with the
>>> most powerful company in the world, which is sexy.
>>>
>>>
>>>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Chris Blow <cgblow at gmail.com>
>>>>To: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:12 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Mikel,
>>>>
>>>>
> While there are several clear solutions that are unrealistic to propose in
> your meeting, I would just like to see a tool that allows users to to export
> data most of the data that they create in Google Maps.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is that too much to ask? I can see that a technical barrier would be an
>>>> way to differentiate between original user data entry and modifications
>>>> of existing data. If someone edits a big interchange with a 5 year
>>>> history of 99% proprietary edits, Google isn't going to give that data
>>>> back. But if you are mapping completely new roads and POIs in the
>>>> developing world ... you should be able to do a significant export.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>PS I don't understand how the WB got itself into this, aren't they all
>>>> lawyers? How can OSM make it clearer that there is a cost to using
>>>> proprietary data? It has a toxic touch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>PPS it seems like better UX and design at OSM could be the root cause of
>>>> them working with Google in the first place — does this seem accurate?
>>>> Or are there deeper architectural/technical/business reasons that WB is
>>>> going with Google?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>c
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>They're talking about me. Don't get too excited. I'll probably have a lot
>>>> more to say soon. Would love to hear some feedback ...
>>>>>
>>>>>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> From: Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es>
>>>>>>To: hot at openstreetmap.org
>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 1:37 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A news item got my attention a few
>                                     minutes ago:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Quote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>«Aleem Walji, practice manager of
>                                     the World Bank's innovation
>                                     practice, said
>>>>>>Thursday that he would be sitting
>                                     down with people from [...] the
>                                     open-source
>>>>>>mapping group OpenStreetMap to
>                                     discuss a partnership between the
>                                     bank and
>>>>>>Google that would see the search
>                                     giant's Google Map Maker tool put to
>                                     use in
>>>>>>developing countries.»
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm wondering if they refer to
>                                     someone from the OSM Foundation, or
>                                     someone
>>>>>>from HOT. I'd love to see some
>                                     feedback regarding this issue over
>                                     this
>>>>>>mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best,
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es> <ivan at geonerd.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here I come when I better go
>>>>>>I say yes when I ought to say no
>>>>>>
>                                                 -- Dragonnette, I come
>                                     around
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>HOT mailing list
>>>>>>HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>>>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>>>>>HOT mailing list
>>>>>HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>HOT mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>>--
> gpg 0x5939EAE2
>>
>>


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