[HOT] HOT Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1
Om Goeckermann
om.imap at gmail.com
Mon Jul 1 11:59:08 UTC 2013
Andrew, Pierre,
I'm interested to provide some liaison functions as needed between HOT and crisis mappers.
In the case of India floods, the event and online presence was put together on the fly, and I'm not sure that the ease and benefits of using OSM base layer were conveyed.
In retrospect it seems that a platform change was the perception of how to accomplish that.
I'm very interested to share in the process of clarifying procedures and figuring out some of the UX challenges to make random novice participation more fluid.
Om
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 1, 2013, at 12:59 AM, hot-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap contribution
> (maning sambale)
> 2. Re: Central African Republic import of WRI data (Severin MENARD)
> 3. Re: a more extreme HOT task manager (Kate Chapman)
> 4. Re: 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap contribution
> (Kate Chapman)
> 5. Re: 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap contribution
> (Russell Deffner)
> 6. Re: 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap contribution
> (Andrew Buck)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 10:57:30 +0800
> From: maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com>
> To: Pierre B?land <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap in India <talk-in at openstreetmap.org>,
> "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>, Ishan Chattopadhyaya
> <ichattopadhyaya at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap
> contribution
> Message-ID:
> <CAPzumuHWh3K8nMB0ZrFeiiqYn6R43O60T-ndegTzdn=LMRRinw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Dear Pierre,
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Pierre B?land <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Even if HOT contributors responded very rapidly to this emergency, NGO's who
>> proposed to collaborate with us showed no flexibility in adapting their
>> tools to show OpenStreetMap layer in their Crisis Map. Crowdmap or similar
>> tools would have given them more flexibility. But they made other choices.
> If possible, can you explain a bit further on why this is so?
> This is for us to understand better how we can cooridnate with local
> NGOs here, should we need to do activations.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 23:05:59 -0400
> From: Severin MENARD <severin.menard at gmail.com>
> To: Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
> Cc: imports at openstreetmap.org, "hot at openstreetmap.org"
> <hot at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] Central African Republic import of WRI data
> Message-ID:
> <CA+y5pB+9zh9Y8pG4gPt4Hw6gtNN03U53B4i6z2nA4QhD=9tpmA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thanks for your input regarding the import applying rules + the technical
> tip. One question: how the nodes can be reused if we trace a new way?
>
> Please you can try the http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/219 if you want to test
>
> Regarding the UNICEF data
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/CAR_Imports>to be imported in OSM,
> I think it is a real import. Pierre B?land advised
> me to ask you some feebacks regarding how to find water points, told me you
> are an expert.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In answer to your question on imports, I think the general consensus is
>> that tracing from bing and then copying attributes from this dataset would
>> not be considered an import, it is merely a second source of data used in
>> manual mapping.
>>
>> One other thing to consider is the 'utilsplugin2' which has a 'replace
>> geometry' feature where you draw a new way manually and then select both
>> the old way with bad geometry and the newly draw way and press ctrl+shift+g
>> and the old way tags are copied to the new way, and the way id is copied
>> over as well, as well as re-using as many of the existing nodes as
>> possible. This all preserves the history and minimizes database size. In
>> this fasion it would be possible to import the data as is, and then easily
>> clean it up with replace geometry. If there are not too many roads this
>> can go very quickly. I would volunteer to re-trace a lot of data this way,
>> especially if I get one or two others to help.
>>
>> -AndrewBuck
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 10:58:29 +0700
> From: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> To: Russell Deffner <russdeffner at gmail.com>
> Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] a more extreme HOT task manager
> Message-ID:
> <CAGn7mOqTjy3EiqX-nsP558ZELOMHYV93FpSyPHGgFzA6R0irTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello Laurent,
>
> Actually we track development in Github. It is possible to log
> suggestions here: https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues
>
> One thing though is I think building a microtasking tool is actually a
> different goal than the problem we are attempting to currently solve
> with the tasking manager. After the earthquake in Haiti many people
> couldn't get started at all, because the idea "just start mapping" was
> hard if you weren't familiar with the OSM community. The tasking
> manager is meant to better organize that community.
>
> I suspect we would get more people mapping with microtasks, but likely
> much less of the OSM community. Which has benefits, but we would lose
> the expertise of the community. Perhaps really what is needed is
> another microtasking tool aimed at very specific tasks. There was a
> prototype of one that was used to find I believe water points
> recently.
>
> Best,
>
> -Kate
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Russell Deffner <russdeffner at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Laurent,
>>
>> The Tasking Manager is (and will probably always be) a work in progress.
>> Unless a more competent TM spokesperson can respond better, I would suggest
>> you visit: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager - toward
>> the bottom there is a section regarding development, and possibly one of
>> those links can get you somewhere to post your suggestions.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> =Russ
>> russdeffner at gmail.com
>> russdeffner on OSM
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laurent Sava?te [mailto:laurent.savaete at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:31 AM
>> To: hot at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [HOT] a more extreme HOT task manager
>>
>> Hello HOTties,
>>
>> I'm pretty new here, having joined the group during my first MSF/Doctors
>> without borders field assignment a few months ago.
>>
>> I started mapping the area where I was working, in the south of
>> Madagascar, and started wondering how to get external help in a
>> coordinated way (this was right after the Haruna cyclone, when we were
>> looking for water sources and that sort of stuff). This is when I found
>> out about the HOT task manager.
>>
>> I really liked the idea, but I kept wondering if it couldn't be
>> improved, here's my thinking:
>> First time I gave it a try, it took me about an hour to figure out how
>> to get everything in place to help mapping some part of DRC (downloading
>> the osm file, setting up imagery in JOSM, etc...). Then I took up a
>> random task, which I figured would take at least 2-3h for me to complete
>> in JOSM. Despite loving the idea, I quickly gave up.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be possible to make that whole process more seamless, and
>> therefore get a much wider group of online mappers to help?
>> If the task manager auto-assigned me a very limited task, say trace
>> roads in a square 50x50m, using iD or a simplified version of it, we'd
>> be bordering on microtasking.
>> I would imagine the person requesting the mapping could define their
>> needs (e.g. roads and buildings, or water streams, or collapsed
>> buildings), set the log message for all edits done through the UI. All
>> edits are then done through the web/iD so that micromappers only have to
>> login and trace. If given a job like "trace all buildings in this
>> square", they don't even need to tag anything, because the requester
>> already defined the tags they need.
>> Basically, the essence of the idea is to take everything the computer
>> can take care of off the user's plate.
>> Since the job would take about a minute, it would become a lot easier
>> and less technical for a wider crowd to join and help.
>> And let's dream a bit, with a bit of social media magic, maybe maps
>> could be drawn in a few hours!
>>
>> I'm sure somebody must have thought of similar stuff before, and maybe
>> the idea's been killed, but I couldn't find any trace of it. If there's
>> anything blatently stupid, please let me know :)
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Laurent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 10:59:59 +0700
> From: Kate Chapman <kate at maploser.com>
> To: Pierre B?land <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap in India <talk-in at openstreetmap.org>,
> "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>, Ishan Chattopadhyaya
> <ichattopadhyaya at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap
> contribution
> Message-ID:
> <CAGn7mOrka5m9K26w4ugiQQsTF-UXdkRGjdYbR=oRfb8zuLCUug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi All,
>
> There are organizations interested in the work. Is there someone
> leading the activation? To be honest right now I am not sure who to
> point them at. There are going to be some groups interested in the
> value of OSM and others that are not going to change in the middle of
> a crisis (fair enough really).
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Kate
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Pierre B?land <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Following requests to collaborate to map various towns in the Uttarakhand
>> state, in the Himalaya, north of India, the HOT contributors have responded
>> rapidly. Thanks to all who contributed to this.
>>
>> You can see the result of this effort from the following uMap, where you can
>> locate rapidly the areas mapped.
>>
>> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/uttarakhand-june-2013-flood-openstreetmap-contribu_724#8/30.373/78.832
>>
>> Even if HOT contributors responded very rapidly to this emergency, NGO's who
>> proposed to collaborate with us showed no flexibility in adapting their
>> tools to show OpenStreetMap layer in their Crisis Map. Crowdmap or similar
>> tools would have given them more flexibility. But they made other choices.
>>
>> Collaboration between various NGO's in such emergency operations is
>> essential to the success of such operations. We should look forward an find
>> better ways to collaborate between various NGO's.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:09:59 -0600
> From: "Russell Deffner" <russdeffner at gmail.com>
> To: "'Kate Chapman'" <kate at maploser.com>, 'Pierre B?land'
> <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> Cc: 'OpenStreetMap in India' <talk-in at openstreetmap.org>,
> hot at openstreetmap.org, 'Ishan Chattopadhyaya'
> <ichattopadhyaya at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap
> contribution
> Message-ID: <001401ce7610$db781f40$92685dc0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Kate,
>
> One suggestion that came from the latest Activation working group meeting
> was the formation of 'liaison(s)' or similar position/role (volunteer I
> would assume). We didn't get as far as what the responsibilities, etc. may
> end up being but maybe someone could volunteer to be a/the interim liaison
> for now until a final proposal is adopted.
>
> =Russ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kate Chapman [mailto:kate at maploser.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 10:00 PM
> To: Pierre B?land
> Cc: OpenStreetMap in India; hot at openstreetmap.org; Ishan Chattopadhyaya
> Subject: Re: [HOT] 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap contribution
>
> Hi All,
>
> There are organizations interested in the work. Is there someone
> leading the activation? To be honest right now I am not sure who to
> point them at. There are going to be some groups interested in the
> value of OSM and others that are not going to change in the middle of
> a crisis (fair enough really).
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Kate
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Pierre B?land <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> Following requests to collaborate to map various towns in the Uttarakhand
>> state, in the Himalaya, north of India, the HOT contributors have
> responded
>> rapidly. Thanks to all who contributed to this.
>>
>> You can see the result of this effort from the following uMap, where you
> can
>> locate rapidly the areas mapped.
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/uttarakhand-june-2013-flood-openstreetma
> p-contribu_724#8/30.373/78.832
>>
>> Even if HOT contributors responded very rapidly to this emergency, NGO's
> who
>> proposed to collaborate with us showed no flexibility in adapting their
>> tools to show OpenStreetMap layer in their Crisis Map. Crowdmap or similar
>> tools would have given them more flexibility. But they made other choices.
>>
>> Collaboration between various NGO's in such emergency operations is
>> essential to the success of such operations. We should look forward an
> find
>> better ways to collaborate between various NGO's.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 23:59:45 -0500
> From: Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
> To: Russell Deffner <russdeffner at gmail.com>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap in India <talk-in at openstreetmap.org>, HOT
> Openstreetmap <hot at openstreetmap.org>, Ishan Chattopadhyaya
> <ichattopadhyaya at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] 2013 North India Floods : OpenStreetMap
> contribution
> Message-ID:
> <CAKV0ed1C-wjvyY+Ty_SNdf-Zn+Oue=aTCUZSMh5xTNtnq_zvkQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> To elaborate on this idea further, the idea of liaisons is to be a person
> (or group of people) who will be a permanent link between OSM/HOT and a
> specific NGO. The purpose of the liaison group is to meet regularly with
> their NGO contacts and discuss problems/feedback for the relationship with
> HOT and then feed that back to the community. I.E. to be a bridge between
> HOT and a given NGO.
>
> In the particular case of India with the recent flooding, we got some
> requests to map areas, without any real specific instructions on what/where
> to map, and then in became apparent that the data wasn't being used, so the
> activation kind of died out. If we get proper requests from NGO's and and
> some kind of indication of how they plan to utilize the data then I think
> there are plenty of people willing to contribute.
>
> The liaison procedures are still being formalized and we plan to try them
> out with the upcoming work in Africa, but if there are NGO's who want to
> work with us in India, we could further test this procedure there as well.
> We need to be careful that when we ask volunteers to work on a given
> project, that the data contributed actually gets used in the field. This
> was another key point discussed in the Actvation Working Group meeting that
> Russ mentioned.
>
> -AndrewBuck
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