[HOT] Validating & TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers

Sun Aug 31 22:52:32 UTC 2014

To all who have, Thank you for contributing to this thread.

Although I had been mapping for several years before I started mapping 
with HOT, I found my needs were similar to those described by others. I 
found myself trying to interpret satellite imagery without the benefit 
of having visited the area. In particular I started to realise that a 
lot of the mapping was not to do with what you could actually see, but 
what you could infer from it - highways are continuous despite the fact 
that trees get in the way. Round things that looked like bushes but had 
a funny shadow & worn ground around their bases were actually round 
huts, etc. etc.  In short, I needed someone to look at my mapping and 
say something like 'You're getting there, but you need to ...........'.  
I mapped a lot, and nearly gave up because I didn't know if the mapping 
I was doing was actually any good, or if it was so bad that it was 
actually a hindrance.

Although it's possible to make even more errors if you have never mapped 
before, I feel that mapping for HOT is different to mapping the boring 
tarmac & brick houses of my home town, where I have the benefit of 
having walked, cycled & driven the area. An 'experienced' mapper may 
need the feedback as much as a new mapper.

I've now stood in front of several groups who wish to learn mapping for 
HOT, and I have stressed that they can get feedback about their mapping 
by looking at the validators comments (actually you don't need anything 
in the way of a comment, just so long as the square is checked and turns 
green, or is invalidated & you get a message.) The instructions go 
something like (I try to have pretty pictures as well!);
1. On the TM homepage, click in the box marked [] Your projects
2. Go to the stats tab of one of the projects you have completed squares 
in, and scroll through the list until you find your username - hover the 
mouse over your username & the squares you have marked as complete will 
be the only ones visible - click on one of the squares that has gone 
green & you will see the comments the validator has left.
3. You need to repeat this for every square you have completed, 
individually, and
4. You need to repeat this for each project, and for each of the squares 
in it.
!

Taking on board the comments & suggestions made by various people 
earlier in this thread, could someone please make it that I say;
"Click on the big green button on the TM homepage that says 'Show me the 
feedback for any of my squares that have been validated', and when you 
click on it it takes you to a web page with
date . Square ID . Validators comment
date . Square ID . Validators comment
date . Square ID . Validators comment
date . Square ID . Validators comment
date . Square ID . Validators comment
etc....

Although i like the idea of detailed stats., I think that anyone who 
manages to get started with HOT is capable of being a very good mapper 
given the right guidance & feedback, and I would not like statistics to 
stand in the way of that.

Thanks for reading.

Nick
(Tallguy)

On 31/08/14 18:47, Dan S wrote:
> Hi Severin,
>
> Sounds like a nice approach. However the first two steps are unneeded
> - we can detect new users when they mark squares as done, not via
> changeset hashtags. In my experience newcomers often forget to tag
> changesets, so your approach would miss many of them - yet we already
> know their username within the Tasking Manager.
>
> Also I'm not keen on the idea of marking users as "bad for such and
> such". It would be better simply to have neutral state plus "good for
> such and such".
>
> Best
> Dan
>
>
> 2014-08-31 8:07 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have
>> a tool allwing the following:
>> - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username
>> - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it
>> is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items
>> (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads
>> correctly, etc.)
>> - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a
>> validation team
>> - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the
>> contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great,
>> with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the
>> contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there
>> are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error
>> - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would
>> be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the
>> latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this
>> contributor would submit a new changeset
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Severin
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen <nick.allen.54 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Pierre,
>>>
>>> A help channel or some form social help channel would be good, but in
>>> order to ask for help, the mapper needs to realise they are doing something
>>> wrong, or don't know how to do something.
>>>
>>> The new mappers in this thread are consistently asking for someone to
>>> check their work, and provide feedback so they know what to do to improve.
>>> The validation process is good for this as well as quality control - but it
>>> would be nice if we made it easier for the new mapper to receive the
>>> comments, and if needed for the validator to pass them.
>>>
>>> I don't know if it is easily achievable, but perhaps a system where the
>>> validators comments are more easily available to the mapper, unless they opt
>>> to not receive them. I know that MSF & BRC were keen to offer help, and I
>>> know that the few mappers that have replied to this thread are asking for
>>> this feedback.
>>>
>>> It would be good if more mappers replied, especially if they are new, so
>>> we have an idea as to whether it is worth investigating further.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Nick (Tallguy)
>>> --
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Volunteer 'Tallguy' for
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy
>>>
>>> Treasurer, website & Bonus Ball admin for
>>> http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasurer at 6thswanleyscouts.org.uk)
>>>
>>>
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>>
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-- 

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy

Treasurer, website & Bonus Ball admin for 
http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasurer at 6thswanleyscouts.org.uk 
<mailto:treasurer at 6thswanleyscouts.org.uk>)

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