[HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?

Dan S danstowell+osm at gmail.com
Tue Nov 4 14:29:14 UTC 2014


Andy,

Feature requests for iD would go here:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues
but I doubt that they would be keen on making the buttons show such
verbose language...

Best
Dan


2014-11-04 14:02 GMT+00:00 Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>:
> Hi, Sander,
>
> Sorry, missed the distinction in the conversation here between the saving of
> objects and the saving of changesets.
>
> This is actually something that I think needs to be clarified in iD: there
> are two “Save” buttons that show up while editing, I think it would be much,
> much better from an HI perspective if they had distinct labels, viz. “Save
> Object” and “Save Changeset”. Where is the the appropriate location to
> request this change, here: https://help.openstreetmap.org/tags/ideditor/ ?
>
> — Andy
>
> On Nov 4, 2014, at 4:03 AM, Sander Deryckere <sanderd17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Pat tressel, for every object, you can query the history, so all changesets
> that changed it, and the tags on those changesets.
>
> So you can certainly query which sources were used to create an element if
> all authors mentioned their sources.
>
> @Andy Anderson, in iD, you cannot chose your own changeset tags. A changeset
> tag is not a tag on an object. But iD adds some changeset tags by default,
> like imagery_used=* and created_by=iD.
>
> changeset tags were introduced to make the database smaller, before those,
> almost all elements had tags on them like created_by=JOSM,
> created_by=Merkaartor, ... which wasn't useful at all, it's more useful to
> know which change came from which editor. So now, editors like JOSM
> automatically delete those "created_by" tags when you modify an object, but
> they do put a "created_by" tag on the changeset.
>
> JOSM doesn't (yet) delete source=* tags, because it's still used by too many
> people, and might contain more valuable information.
>
> 2014-11-04 9:36 GMT+01:00 Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Andy - "imagery_used" is automatically added by iD, every time. You
>> won't see it as a tag you can add, it's added automatically to the
>> changeset.
>>
>> 2014-11-03 23:45 GMT+00:00 Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>:
>> > Hi, Pat,
>> >
>> > Looking at OSM using the iD editor, when I type in “image” the only
>> > relevant
>> > tags that pop up are “image”,  “source:imagery”, and
>> > “source_type_imagery”;
>> > “imagery_used” is not an option, I have to type it in explicitly. Does
>> > this
>> > mean it’s not a very commonly used tag (?).
>> >
>> > It would be much better if this were automatic, in any case. Even with
>> > the
>> > easy-to-use Source button present, it’s a bit of a bother; it would be
>> > even
>> > more so if this type has to be typed or menued in every time.
>> > Theoretically
>> > one could switch background imagery even in the middle of an edit, which
>> > might warrant multiple tags, but that would probably be rare.
>> >
>> > — Andy
>> >
>> > On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:21 PM, Pat Tressel <ptressel at myuw.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > There was another thread relating to this a short while ago, so there's
>> > more
>> > relevant discussion there.
>> >
>> > Two notes:
>> >
>> > The source tag can hold other info besides imagery, e.g. it could tell
>> > who
>> > or what agency provided some item of information.  The iD imagery_used
>> > tag
>> > is more specific.  But historically, source has been used for imagery
>> > too.
>> >
>> > With respect to whether the source / imagery_used tag should go on
>> > features
>> > or changeset:  I raised this question at the end of the previous thread
>> > on
>> > this subject.  We don't want to lose the fact that something was traced
>> > with
>> > use of a particular set of imagery if someone edits a feature.  Let's
>> > take
>> > one specific case:  Say that someone enters a feature (say it's one
>> > point,
>> > just to be clear) using one set of imagery, and the imagery_used tag
>> > gets
>> > assigned to the changeset.  If someone later shifts that point, while
>> > using
>> > a different set of imagery, is it still possible to get back to the
>> > original
>> > changeset from the modified point?
>> >
>> > -- Pat
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100
>> >> Sander Deryckere <sanderd17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > It's more logical to put it on the changeset.
>> >> >
>> >> > Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone
>> >> > who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the
>> >> > object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in
>> >> > fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself.
>> >>
>> >> I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an
>> >> object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source?
>> >> Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that
>> >> were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea
>> >> how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand.
>> >>
>> >> > As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset
>> >> > (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller).
>> >>
>> >> > When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to
>> >> > the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline
>> >> > source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the
>> >> > changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which
>> >> > is why many people still put a source on the objects).
>> >>
>> >> So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from
>> >> the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am
>> >> not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking
>> >> in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need
>> >> to.
>> >>
>> >> Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am
>> >> good with that.
>> >>
>> >> cheers - ray
>> >>
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Sander
>> >> >
>> >> > 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org>:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hello -
>> >> > >
>> >> > > This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT
>> >> > > tasks.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding
>> >> > > something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every
>> >> > > road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I
>> >> > > bother with this?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could
>> >> > > also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it
>> >> > > to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every
>> >> > > object,
>> >> > > that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at
>> >> > > all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source
>> >> > > value.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every
>> >> > > time? What is the level of diligence expected here?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > thanx - ray
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
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>> >> > >
>> >>
>> >>
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