[HOT] bother adding source=Whatever to each object?

Andy Anderson aanderson at amherst.edu
Tue Nov 4 14:54:35 UTC 2014


Thanks, Dan — you may be right about simple button names, in which case I would suggest the use of the language “Save” and “Commit”, which is used by Git and from what I can tell is a more accurate description of what’s happening. I think it’s also understandable to non-Git users.

— Andy

On Nov 4, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Andy,
> 
> Feature requests for iD would go here:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues
> but I doubt that they would be keen on making the buttons show such
> verbose language...
> 
> Best
> Dan
> 
> 
> 2014-11-04 14:02 GMT+00:00 Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>:
>> Hi, Sander,
>> 
>> Sorry, missed the distinction in the conversation here between the saving of
>> objects and the saving of changesets.
>> 
>> This is actually something that I think needs to be clarified in iD: there
>> are two “Save” buttons that show up while editing, I think it would be much,
>> much better from an HI perspective if they had distinct labels, viz. “Save
>> Object” and “Save Changeset”. Where is the the appropriate location to
>> request this change, here: https://help.openstreetmap.org/tags/ideditor/ ?
>> 
>> — Andy
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2014, at 4:03 AM, Sander Deryckere <sanderd17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> @Pat tressel, for every object, you can query the history, so all changesets
>> that changed it, and the tags on those changesets.
>> 
>> So you can certainly query which sources were used to create an element if
>> all authors mentioned their sources.
>> 
>> @Andy Anderson, in iD, you cannot chose your own changeset tags. A changeset
>> tag is not a tag on an object. But iD adds some changeset tags by default,
>> like imagery_used=* and created_by=iD.
>> 
>> changeset tags were introduced to make the database smaller, before those,
>> almost all elements had tags on them like created_by=JOSM,
>> created_by=Merkaartor, ... which wasn't useful at all, it's more useful to
>> know which change came from which editor. So now, editors like JOSM
>> automatically delete those "created_by" tags when you modify an object, but
>> they do put a "created_by" tag on the changeset.
>> 
>> JOSM doesn't (yet) delete source=* tags, because it's still used by too many
>> people, and might contain more valuable information.
>> 
>> 2014-11-04 9:36 GMT+01:00 Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>> Andy - "imagery_used" is automatically added by iD, every time. You
>>> won't see it as a tag you can add, it's added automatically to the
>>> changeset.
>>> 
>>> 2014-11-03 23:45 GMT+00:00 Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>:
>>>> Hi, Pat,
>>>> 
>>>> Looking at OSM using the iD editor, when I type in “image” the only
>>>> relevant
>>>> tags that pop up are “image”,  “source:imagery”, and
>>>> “source_type_imagery”;
>>>> “imagery_used” is not an option, I have to type it in explicitly. Does
>>>> this
>>>> mean it’s not a very commonly used tag (?).
>>>> 
>>>> It would be much better if this were automatic, in any case. Even with
>>>> the
>>>> easy-to-use Source button present, it’s a bit of a bother; it would be
>>>> even
>>>> more so if this type has to be typed or menued in every time.
>>>> Theoretically
>>>> one could switch background imagery even in the middle of an edit, which
>>>> might warrant multiple tags, but that would probably be rare.
>>>> 
>>>> — Andy
>>>> 
>>>> On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:21 PM, Pat Tressel <ptressel at myuw.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> There was another thread relating to this a short while ago, so there's
>>>> more
>>>> relevant discussion there.
>>>> 
>>>> Two notes:
>>>> 
>>>> The source tag can hold other info besides imagery, e.g. it could tell
>>>> who
>>>> or what agency provided some item of information.  The iD imagery_used
>>>> tag
>>>> is more specific.  But historically, source has been used for imagery
>>>> too.
>>>> 
>>>> With respect to whether the source / imagery_used tag should go on
>>>> features
>>>> or changeset:  I raised this question at the end of the previous thread
>>>> on
>>>> this subject.  We don't want to lose the fact that something was traced
>>>> with
>>>> use of a particular set of imagery if someone edits a feature.  Let's
>>>> take
>>>> one specific case:  Say that someone enters a feature (say it's one
>>>> point,
>>>> just to be clear) using one set of imagery, and the imagery_used tag
>>>> gets
>>>> assigned to the changeset.  If someone later shifts that point, while
>>>> using
>>>> a different set of imagery, is it still possible to get back to the
>>>> original
>>>> changeset from the modified point?
>>>> 
>>>> -- Pat
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Nov 2014 19:51:52 +0100
>>>>> Sander Deryckere <sanderd17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's more logical to put it on the changeset.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Like when you draw a building, and add source=bing. But then someone
>>>>>> who lives there gives it a name, and forgets to alter the source, the
>>>>>> object has data that can't be derived from the source. So it's in
>>>>>> fact your edit operation that has a source, not the object itself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I had wondered about this when I saw multiple source values on an
>>>>> object. I mean, which other attributes came from which source?
>>>>> Technically the source should map to the subset of the attributes that
>>>>> were observed from that source, but in real life, I would have no idea
>>>>> how that could be presented in a way anyone would understand.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> As such, source=Bing is by many mappers preferred on the changeset
>>>>>> (also because it keeps the database a bit smaller).
>>>>> 
>>>>>> When you edit with JOSM, you can add the source manually as a tag to
>>>>>> the changeset (which is handy if your source is a survey or offline
>>>>>> source). In iD, it automatically logs the imagery used in the
>>>>>> changeset, but you don't get an option to give other sources (which
>>>>>> is why many people still put a source on the objects).
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I understand this to mean that if you are putting in an object from
>>>>> the imagery in front of you, you do not need to do anything else. I am
>>>>> not seeing that iD is attaching this anywhere but I may not be looking
>>>>> in the right place. But as long as the database sees it, I do not need
>>>>> to.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Take away point, I do not need to set the source 100 times and I am
>>>>> good with that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> cheers - ray
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Sander
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2014-11-03 19:41 GMT+01:00 Ray Kiddy <ray at ganymede.org>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is probably a somewhat basic question about editing for HOT
>>>>>>> tasks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As I have been editing in various HOT tasks, I have been adding
>>>>>>> something like source=Bing (where that is the imagery) onto every
>>>>>>> road, every building, every ... everything that I create. Need I
>>>>>>> bother with this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have seen in (perhaps just some tasks') instructions that I could
>>>>>>> also just put this on the changeset comment. So I can just add it
>>>>>>> to the changeset once instead of adding it to the object 100 times?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If it could be put on the changeset comment and not on every
>>>>>>> object,
>>>>>>> that would be convenient. It would also explain why, when I look at
>>>>>>> all of the objects others have created, I hardly ever see a source
>>>>>>> value.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, am I doing too much work by re-entering the source value every
>>>>>>> time? What is the level of diligence expected here?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> thanx - ray
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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