[HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!

Severin Menard severin.menard at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 10:04:07 UTC 2015


Hi,

We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
"experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
(as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org> wrote:

> Fellow mappers,
>
> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
> critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
> from contributing.
>
> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate the
> tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to
> local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to
> create screencast for specific tasks.
>
> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
> participate in a project others criticize:
>
> - Are the maps actually being used?
> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
> incomplete?
> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>
> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
> shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
> to make HOT even more awesome.
>
> Best,
> clkao
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT
>> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest
>> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great.
>>> I know many of us started during an emergency.
>>>
>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was
>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are
>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So,
>>> I started another email chain about training help.
>>>
>>> Step by step,
>>>
>>> heather
>>>
>>> Heather Leson
>>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
>>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
>>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>>>>
>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well
>>>> the new contributors.
>>>>
>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make
>>>> to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and
>>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce
>>>> quality mapping.
>>>>
>>>> regard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>  *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
>>>> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
>>>> some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
>>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
>>>> download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
>>>> the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
>>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
>>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
>>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
>>>> other mappers.
>>>>
>>>> - -AndrewBuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
>>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
>>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
>>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
>>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
>>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
>>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
>>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
>>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
>>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
>>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
>>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
>>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
>>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
>>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
>>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
>>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
>>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
>>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
>>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
>>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
>>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
>>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
>>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
>>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
>>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
>>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
>>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
>>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
>>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
>>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
>>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
>>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
>>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
>>>> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Pete Masters*
>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
>> +44 7921 781 518
>>
>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>
>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>
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