Pierre Béland pierzenh at yahoo.fr
Tue Apr 28 10:16:21 UTC 2015

Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, please do.
I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.

      De : Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
 À : "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org> 
 Envoyé le : Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04

We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?



On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org> wrote:

Fellow mappers,
Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof, and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain from contributing.
Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to create screencast for specific tasks.
As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to participate in a project others criticize:
- Are the maps actually being used?- If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or incomplete?- What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously to make HOT even more awesome.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:

This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great. I know many of us started during an emergency. 

For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So, I started another email chain about training help. 

Step by step, 


Heather Leson
heatherleson at gmail.com
Twitter: HeatherLeson 
Blog: textontechs.com

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:

This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great job. They were in the top list of contributors.
This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well the new contributors. 

I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality mapping.

      De : Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
 À : hot at openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
Hash: SHA1

I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.

Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
other mappers.

- -AndrewBuck

On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
> If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
> change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
> Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
> are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
> with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
> tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
> validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
> #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
> on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
> have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these 
> beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
> roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
> validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
> favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
> on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is 
> extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
> those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
> and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
> because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
> correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
> the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
> better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
> policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
> 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
> are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
> being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
> producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
> also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
> nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
> over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have 
> identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
> open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
> experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
> crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list 
> HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

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