[HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!

Andrew Buck andrew.r.buck at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 12:24:15 UTC 2015


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I think this is a good idea, a sort of 'tiered' priveledge system.
New users can only map new tiles, then after completing 5 tiles or so
they can move on to validating, etc.  We could also look at data such
as how many changesets the user has in total (maybe they are new to
the TM but have thousands of edits on OSM).  There is also how long
ago they registered on OSM, and so on.  We could easily develop some
kind of a 'experience score' based on these criteria, and then allow
that to unlock the more experienced TM functionality.

None of this though detracts from what myself and Pierre are saying
about better validation in general, not just in the TM but using other
tools as well.

- -AndrewBuck

On 04/28/2015 05:04 AM, Severin Menard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create
> an "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to
> have access to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any
> other mapper to this status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust
> her/his skills. The rest of the mappers (supposedly beginners)
> could map only the non validated task (as they should supposedly
> do). Thoughts?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Severin
> 
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Fellow mappers,
>> 
>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is
>> a critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is
>> what makes OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating
>> newbies with better community support or technical improvement to
>> make tools more fool-proof, and figure out under what
>> circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain from
>> contributing.
>> 
>> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we
>> circulate the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized
>> tutorial and a link to local community's group for newbies to
>> find help.  People also wanted to create screencast for specific
>> tasks.
>> 
>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during 
>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I
>> actually couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's
>> already one) for some common critics, so people won't be scared
>> away because they are to participate in a project others
>> criticize:
>> 
>> - Are the maps actually being used? - If this is used in critical
>> mission, what happens when it's wrong or incomplete? - What's the
>> point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>> 
>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our
>> community switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you
>> shouldn't do it" to "People's life are at stake because the maps
>> are in actual use, you shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do
>> need to tackle the issue seriously to make HOT even more
>> awesome.
>> 
>> Best, clkao
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters
>> <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at
>>> the HOT Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps.
>>> If it is of interest to any of you, please find me in DC or
>>> drop me a line...
>>> 
>>> Pete
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson
>>> <heatherleson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people
>>>> improving is great. I know many of us started during an
>>>> emergency.
>>>> 
>>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I
>>>> know I was firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I
>>>> really think you are right that we need to improve new mapper
>>>> onboarding during emergencies. So, I started another email
>>>> chain about training help.
>>>> 
>>>> Step by step,
>>>> 
>>>> heather
>>>> 
>>>> Heather Leson heatherleson at gmail.com Twitter: HeatherLeson 
>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland
>>>> <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>> 
>>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak.
>>>>> With a long Activation, we saw contributors that did
>>>>> improve rapidly and did a great job. They were in the top
>>>>> list of contributors.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to
>>>>> accompany well the new contributors.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about
>>>>> improvements to make to our monitoring tools. We should
>>>>> surely continue to look at this and assure we have the
>>>>> possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality
>>>>> mapping.
>>>>> 
>>>>> regard
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pierre
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------------------------------ *De :* Andrew Buck
>>>>> <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org 
>>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21 *Objet :* Re: [HOT]
>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>> 
> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad,
> but some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can
> also do is load large sections of the country in JOSM with the
> 'mirrored download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area
> and just check the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even
> just a few people doing this every now and then makes a huge
> difference.
> 
> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map. 
> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are
> mindful of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing
> conflicts for other mappers.
> 
> -AndrewBuck
> 
> 
> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>>>>>>> If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We
>>>>>>> need to change what we are doing and who we are letting
>>>>>>> in to do it. These Activations in response to a
>>>>>>> disaster means that people's lives are at stake here. I
>>>>>>> am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some with no
>>>>>>> completed tiles and others with only one or two
>>>>>>> completed tiles) messing around with validating tiles
>>>>>>> or unlocking already validated tiles and working on
>>>>>>> them. I have a screen shot of Nepal #944 showing 5
>>>>>>> validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked on
>>>>>>> the people that were doing this they were complete
>>>>>>> beginners. I have had one of the tiles I had completed
>>>>>>> opened by one of these beginners and started adding
>>>>>>> short little sections of disconnected roads (The
>>>>>>> instructions specifically ask us not to add these)
>>>>>>> then validating this tile, then invalidating it again.
>>>>>>> While I am all in favour of getting new mappers up and
>>>>>>> going this should only be done on the Missing Maps
>>>>>>> project and not on HOT Activations. It is extremely
>>>>>>> important that we get it right as quickly as possible
>>>>>>> for those people out in the field with injured and dead
>>>>>>> all around them and lives at stake for us to be
>>>>>>> rechecking already validated tiles because we can no
>>>>>>> longer trust them to be correct or near to correct. We
>>>>>>> have already had complaints about poor quality work in 
>>>>>>> the past and this type of activity is not going to get
>>>>>>> us any better credibility. We really need to rethink
>>>>>>> the "open to all" policy for HOT Activations. I am now
>>>>>>> looking at #944 which shows 63% Validated right now and
>>>>>>> there is two more Validated tiles that are actively
>>>>>>> locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as 
>>>>>>> being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of
>>>>>>> what we are producing will be of some assistance in the
>>>>>>> hills of Nepal but can also imagine the frustration of
>>>>>>> those people with some of the nonsense I have managed
>>>>>>> to clean up while validating. OK. Rant over. I will be
>>>>>>> sending out messages to all the new mappers I have 
>>>>>>> identified asking them to only work on the white tiles
>>>>>>> and not to open any of the orange or green ones until
>>>>>>> they have a lot more experience. Sorry to have
>>>>>>> interrupted you in the middle of this crisis but felt
>>>>>>> that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ HOT
>>>>>>> mailing list HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing
>>>>> list HOT at openstreetmap.org 
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing
>>>>> list HOT at openstreetmap.org 
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing
>>>> list HOT at openstreetmap.org 
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- *Pete Masters* Missing Maps Project Coordinator +44 7921 781
>>> 518
>>> 
>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>> 
>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> 
>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> 
>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* 
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject> 
>>> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing
>>> list HOT at openstreetmap.org 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list 
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list 
> HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
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=qRn5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



More information about the HOT mailing list