[HOT] FW: Validation

Jarmo Kivekäs jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com
Sat Aug 29 18:35:24 UTC 2015


Hi!

There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this
last October.

I rather like the "Stop working on task" alternative that is suggested
instead of the "Unlock" button in that issue. Especially since currently
the button to lock a task says "Start mapping". There is more obvious
connection between start/stop than start/unlock.

Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to
many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.

"Submit for review" is a definitive improvement over "Mark as done". It
should be implemented.

I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a
local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll
implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an agreement.

-- jarmo

[1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401

On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:
> I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out. Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to “Check out” and “check in". That would make a big difference as well.
> 
> I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not to make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?
> 
> Jim 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dittus [mailto:martin at dekstop.de] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
> To: David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk>
> Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation
> 
> As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers. Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
> 
> In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels. A second pair of eyes.
> 
> An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
> 
> m.
> 
> 
>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
>>
>> My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's - and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
>>
>> Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for review'.
>>
>> A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review' implies that:
>> - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch 
>> it, and
>> - b) I should expect feedback
>>
>> This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens 
>> the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four 
>> words of explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I 
>> understand the time pressure.)
>>
>> Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com> wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still 
>> fairly new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
>>
>> I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to 
>> the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as done.
>> Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the past.
>>
>> 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own 
>> (I haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on 
>> a mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone 
>> advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually 
>> left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure 
>> about, mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
>>
>> Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new 
>> mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of 
>> your mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting 
>> notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on 
>> would be nice.
>>
>> 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the 
>> activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not 
>> marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making 
>> any changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for 
>> the task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users 
>> in the past. "They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing 
>> something." I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem, 
>> since I'll just be one more user on the list.
>>
>> 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map 
>> it completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
>>
>> 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will 
>> result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated, 
>> but no tiles are actually being finished.
>>
>>
>> -- Jarmo
>>
>>
>> On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger "I've done some work but not completed the tile could someone review it please."  I'd rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident enough to mark a tile complete.
>>>
>>> Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
>>>
>>> I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
>>>
>>> m.
>>
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