[HOT] FW: Validation

Pierre GIRAUD pierre.giraud at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 11:06:35 UTC 2015


Also please remember that the tool is translated in other languages.
On my side, I don't know how to translate "check in/out" in french. It
depends on the situation. When I'm at the airport checking in
luggages, or at a hotel checking in to get my room's keys, I won't use
the same words.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:52 AM, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> check in /out might be considered a regional dialect, you have to consider
> the audience and their level of English, I think keep it as simple and as
> clear as possible.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 29 August 2015 at 20:15, Denis Carriere <carriere.denis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm liking "check in" & "check out", I feel terminology is more commonly
>> used.
>>
>> Also ethically the words "start work" doesn't look as good as button vs.
>> "check in".
>>
>> My personal opinion, +1 on "check in" & "check out"
>>
>> ~~~~~~
>> Denis Carriere
>> GIS Project Manager
>> Twitter: @DenisCarriere
>> OSM: DenisCarriere
>> Email: Carriere.Denis at gmail.com
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Suzan Reed <suzan at suzanreed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Would 'start work' and 'stop work' be clear to all people?
>>>
>>> Suzan
>>> Sent from my phone. Please forgive errors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On August 29, 2015 11:46:55 AM Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> There has been some related discussion in a github issue[1] about this
>>>> last October.
>>>>
>>>> I rather like the "Stop working on task" alternative that is suggested
>>>> instead of the "Unlock" button in that issue. Especially since currently
>>>> the button to lock a task says "Start mapping". There is more obvious
>>>> connection between start/stop than start/unlock.
>>>>
>>>> Checking in and checking out content is probably a strange concept to
>>>> many. I don't think it's an improvement over locking and unlocking.
>>>>
>>>> "Submit for review" is a definitive improvement over "Mark as done". It
>>>> should be implemented.
>>>>
>>>> I've played around a little and made the changes I like the best in a
>>>> local copy of the tasking manager (screenshot in attachment). I'll
>>>> implement the changes and make a pull request if we come to an
>>>> agreement.
>>>>
>>>> -- jarmo
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/401
>>>>
>>>> On 29.08.2015 05:22, Jim Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea of renaming the 'mark as done' button to 'submit for
>>>>> review'. Little tweaks like that can bring clarity to those starting out.
>>>>> Also Suzan suggested that the “lock” “unlock” function be renamed to “Check
>>>>> out” and “check in". That would make a big difference as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't want to be too overenthusiastic  but is there any reason not to
>>>>> make those two improvements? If no objection, can they be done soon?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Martin Dittus [mailto:martin at dekstop.de]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:44 AM
>>>>> To: David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk>
>>>>> Cc: hot <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [HOT] Validation
>>>>>
>>>>> As I’m going through the comments again (here and on my diary post) I’m
>>>>> starting to realise how important it is to give feedback to newcomers.
>>>>> Without it, few people will ever feel confident about their contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> In many cases it probably doesn’t even need to be feedback from an
>>>>> expert — it could be a comment from someone with similar experience levels.
>>>>> A second pair of eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> An important part of this is being able to ask someone for a second
>>>>> opinion. At a mapathon that’s easy, but where do remote mappers go?
>>>>>
>>>>> m.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 19:00, David Toy <d at vidtoy.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jarmo. Welcome!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My introduction/onboarding to HOT was almost identical to Jarmo's -
>>>>>> and I can relate very clearly to all the points he has raised. I suspect
>>>>>> that there are a few more lurkers on this list who will be similar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre G's document suggests renaming the 'mark as done' button to
>>>>>> 'submit for review'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A simplification of terms / altered workflow would have helped me
>>>>>> initially. Taking the example of the done button, 'submit for review'
>>>>>> implies that:
>>>>>> - a) it's ok to make a mistake getting started - someone will catch
>>>>>> it, and
>>>>>> - b) I should expect feedback
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This helps with Jarmo's first and second scenarios, but also softens
>>>>>> the blow when (your first) task is coldly invalidated with only four
>>>>>> words of explanation. (Validators: that's not a criticism - I
>>>>>> understand the time pressure.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, not all users will read the docs - while training resources are
>>>>>> useful, these little nudges of understanding help all users - even the new
>>>>>> ones who enthusiastically started but didn't read the instructions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24 August 2015 at 17:18, Jarmo Kivekäs <jarmo.kivekas at guttula.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been lurking on the mailing list for a while, but I'm still
>>>>>> fairly new to HOT. I though I'd pitch in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I definitely recognized myself from Martin's write up as belonging to
>>>>>> the set of contributors who commit changes but don't mark tiles as
>>>>>> done.
>>>>>> Below are some reasons why I've not marked tiles as complete in the
>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I think part of the reason is that I started out mapping on my own
>>>>>> (I haven't found a local community, nor was I introduced to mapping on
>>>>>> a mapathon). Therefore I haven't been able to just quickly ask someone
>>>>>> advice about something I'm unsure about. In these cases I've usually
>>>>>> left a comment in the tasking manager about whatever I was unsure
>>>>>> about, mapped the rest, but not marked the tile as done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not marking the tile done is me being conservative, I guess. As a new
>>>>>> mapper it is currently difficult to get feedback on the quality of
>>>>>> your mapping, you pretty much needs to actively seek it out. Getting
>>>>>> notifications when there are new comments on tiles you've worked on
>>>>>> would be nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. When parts of a region are already mapped (probably form before the
>>>>>> activation was created) but the tiles that are already mapped are not
>>>>>> marked as done. I'm reluctant to mark a grid as done without making
>>>>>> any changes to it, even if it seemingly fills all the criterion for
>>>>>> the task. Especially when the grid has been locked my multiple users
>>>>>> in the past. "They didn't think it was as done, I'm probably missing
>>>>>> something." I realize that this thinking only propagates the problem,
>>>>>> since I'll just be one more user on the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Grids can be pretty large. Sometimes you just don't manage to map
>>>>>> it completely in a short sitting. I know grids can be split, but...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Sometimes I'll for example only be mapping roads. Doing this will
>>>>>> result in many tiles being checked out and changesets are generated,
>>>>>> but no tiles are actually being finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Jarmo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24.08.2015 16:37, Martin Dittus wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24 Aug 2015, at 11:22, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see a third option on the tasking manger "I've done
>>>>>>>> some work but not completed the tile could someone review it please."  I'd
>>>>>>>> rather catch errors early and some new mappers may not feel confident enough
>>>>>>>> to mark a tile complete.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Considering better workflows for “incomplete” submissions is well
>>>>>>> worthwhile. This week I found that about half of all HOT contributors never
>>>>>>> mark their first task as “done” although they contributed edits to the map.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve written it up here, with stats and a brief discussion:
>>>>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dekstop/diary/35649
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> m.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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  | Pierre GIRAUD
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