[HOT] [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators

Fri May 1 12:49:58 UTC 2015

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org>
wrote:

> Hey Severin,
>
> I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can
> validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status,
> after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their
> mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being
> able to map non-validated tasks.
>
I would also propose for a future Gsoc (or kindly ask MapBox people to
think about an enhancement) something detecting in Id that objects tagged
as buildings are not squared, because I would say 90% crappy edits come
from this

>
> Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat
> room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions
> specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers'
> could guide the beginners here too.
>
It has been discussed for a long time, it is likely documented in github,
would be good to check with Pierre G about possible developments about this

>
> I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the Activation
> process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible Activation WG
> meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and tools that will
> be able to assist.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mhairi
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an extra
>> step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a great
>> asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data produced
>> through the Activation.
>> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is actually
>> the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, please send
>> an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access future TM jobs
>> with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two folds (road
>> network vs the rest).
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Severin
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <
>> severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> NIck and I made this wikipage about it:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>>>
>>> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job
>>> and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on
>>> the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area
>>> and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not
>>> correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and
>>> republish the job.
>>> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and
>>> - clean everything with the validator
>>> - add mssing objects
>>> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network)
>>> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network,
>>> according to the agreed scheme)
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Severin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data.
>>>> Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do
>>>> it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate,
>>>> please do.
>>>>
>>>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge
>>>> activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure
>>>> we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>  *De :* Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
>>>> *À :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
>>>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
>>>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
>>>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
>>>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
>>>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Severin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fellow mappers,
>>>>
>>>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
>>>> critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
>>>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
>>>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
>>>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
>>>> from contributing.
>>>>
>>>> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate
>>>> the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link
>>>> to local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to
>>>> create screencast for specific tasks.
>>>>
>>>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
>>>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
>>>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
>>>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
>>>> participate in a project others criticize:
>>>>
>>>> - Are the maps actually being used?
>>>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
>>>> incomplete?
>>>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>>>>
>>>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
>>>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
>>>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
>>>> shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
>>>> to make HOT even more awesome.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> clkao
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <
>>>> pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT
>>>> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest
>>>> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is
>>>> great. I know many of us started during an emergency.
>>>>
>>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was
>>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are
>>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So,
>>>> I started another email chain about training help.
>>>>
>>>> Step by step,
>>>>
>>>> heather
>>>>
>>>> Heather Leson
>>>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
>>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
>>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>>>>
>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well
>>>> the new contributors.
>>>>
>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make
>>>> to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and
>>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce
>>>> quality mapping.
>>>>
>>>> regard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>  *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
>>>> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
>>>> some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
>>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
>>>> download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
>>>> the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
>>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
>>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
>>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
>>>> other mappers.
>>>>
>>>> - -AndrewBuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
>>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
>>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
>>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
>>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
>>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
>>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
>>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
>>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
>>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
>>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
>>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
>>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
>>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
>>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
>>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
>>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
>>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
>>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
>>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
>>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
>>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
>>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
>>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
>>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
>>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
>>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
>>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
>>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
>>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
>>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
>>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
>>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
>>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
>>>> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Pete Masters*
>>>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
>>>> +44 7921 781 518
>>>>
>>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>>>
>>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Mhairi O'Hara
> Technical Project Manager
> Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
> Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475
>
> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
> *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
>
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