[HOT] [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators

Severin Menard severin.menard at gmail.com
Fri May 1 13:16:24 UTC 2015


On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Severin,
>>
>> I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can
>> validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status,
>> after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their
>> mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being
>> able to map non-validated tasks.
>>
> I would also propose for a future Gsoc (or kindly ask MapBox people to
> think about an enhancement) something detecting in Id that objects tagged
> as buildings are not squared, because I would say 90% crappy edits come
> from this
>

Just created this issue on GitHub:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624

>
>> Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat
>> room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions
>> specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers'
>> could guide the beginners here too.
>>
> It has been discussed for a long time, it is likely documented in github,
> would be good to check with Pierre G about possible developments about this
>
>>
>> I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the
>> Activation process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible
>> Activation WG meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and
>> tools that will be able to assist.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Mhairi
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an
>>> extra step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a
>>> great asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data
>>> produced through the Activation.
>>> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is
>>> actually the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it,
>>> please send an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access
>>> future TM jobs with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two
>>> folds (road network vs the rest).
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Severin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <
>>> severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NIck and I made this wikipage about it:
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>>>>
>>>> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job
>>>> and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on
>>>> the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area
>>>> and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not
>>>> correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and
>>>> republish the job.
>>>> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and
>>>> - clean everything with the validator
>>>> - add mssing objects
>>>> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network)
>>>> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network,
>>>> according to the agreed scheme)
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Severin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data.
>>>>> Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do
>>>>> it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate,
>>>>> please do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such
>>>>> huge activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and
>>>>> assure we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>
>>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>>  *De :* Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
>>>>> *À :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
>>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
>>>>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
>>>>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
>>>>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
>>>>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
>>>>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Severin
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fellow mappers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
>>>>> critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
>>>>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
>>>>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
>>>>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
>>>>> from contributing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate
>>>>> the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link
>>>>> to local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to
>>>>> create screencast for specific tasks.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
>>>>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
>>>>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
>>>>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
>>>>> participate in a project others criticize:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Are the maps actually being used?
>>>>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
>>>>> incomplete?
>>>>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
>>>>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
>>>>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
>>>>> shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
>>>>> to make HOT even more awesome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> clkao
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <
>>>>> pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the
>>>>> HOT Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of
>>>>> interest to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is
>>>>> great. I know many of us started during an emergency.
>>>>>
>>>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was
>>>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are
>>>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So,
>>>>> I started another email chain about training help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Step by step,
>>>>>
>>>>> heather
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather Leson
>>>>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>>>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
>>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>
>>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
>>>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
>>>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well
>>>>> the new contributors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make
>>>>> to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and
>>>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce
>>>>> quality mapping.
>>>>>
>>>>> regard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>
>>>>>   ------------------------------
>>>>>  *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
>>>>> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
>>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
>>>>> some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
>>>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
>>>>> download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
>>>>> the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
>>>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
>>>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
>>>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
>>>>> other mappers.
>>>>>
>>>>> - -AndrewBuck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>>>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
>>>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
>>>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
>>>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
>>>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
>>>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
>>>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
>>>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
>>>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
>>>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
>>>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
>>>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
>>>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
>>>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
>>>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
>>>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
>>>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
>>>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
>>>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
>>>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
>>>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
>>>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
>>>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
>>>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
>>>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
>>>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
>>>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
>>>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
>>>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
>>>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
>>>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
>>>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
>>>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
>>>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
>>>>> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>> >
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Pete Masters*
>>>>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
>>>>> +44 7921 781 518
>>>>>
>>>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mhairi O'Hara
>> Technical Project Manager
>> Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
>> Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475
>>
>> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
>> *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
>>
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>
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