[HOT] [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators

Mhairi O'Hara mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
Fri May 1 13:31:37 UTC 2015


Not to worry Pierre! Duly noted. I will keep notes of everything so that we
can discuss this after the activation period.

And thanks for the additional information and comments Severin. I am taking
these into account in a rough google docs document.

I will add more suggestions, as I go through the rest of the e-mails that
have come in during the current activation:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O2jkoeHGnhEV1eN8aJDVctdfpWtDiodAUGiSTZmulEA&authuser=0

Please feel free to dumb ideas and suggestions, which I will organise and
present at the next Activation WG meeting for further discussion.

Cheers,

Mhairi

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:53 AM, 'Pierre Béland' via Activation Working
Group <activation at hotosm.org> wrote:

> At each intensive activation, we restart these discussions. We also have
> made such propositions before. But no consensus.
>
> Yes we have to progress on this and continue to develop such
> organizational aspects outside of the emergency period.  I dont have time
> to discuss more on this at this time. Too many subjects at the same time :)
>
>
> Pierre
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *De :* Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org>
> *À :* Activation WG <activation at hotosm.org>
> *Cc :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
> *Envoyé le :* Vendredi 1 mai 2015 8h37
> *Objet :* Re: [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for
> a pool of "Über" Validators
>
> Hey Severin,
>
> I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can
> validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status,
> after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their
> mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being
> able to map non-validated tasks.
>
> Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat
> room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions
> specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers'
> could guide the beginners here too.
>
> I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the Activation
> process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible Activation WG
> meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and tools that will
> be able to assist.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mhairi
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an extra
> step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a great
> asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data produced
> through the Activation.
> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is actually
> the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, please send
> an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access future TM jobs
> with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two folds (road
> network vs the rest).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> NIck and I made this wikipage about it:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>
> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job and
> task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on the
> motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area and
> make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not correctly
> done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and republish
> the job.
> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and
> - clean everything with the validator
> - add mssing objects
> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network)
> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network,
> according to the agreed scheme)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. Not
> only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do it.
> We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, please
> do.
>
> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge
> activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure
> we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
>
>
> Pierre
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *De :* Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
> *À :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>
> Hi,
>
> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Fellow mappers,
>
> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
> critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
> from contributing.
>
> Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate the
> tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to
> local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to
> create screencast for specific tasks.
>
> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
> participate in a project others criticize:
>
> - Are the maps actually being used?
> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
> incomplete?
> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>
> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
> shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
> to make HOT even more awesome.
>
> Best,
> clkao
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT
> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest
> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>
> Pete
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great. I
> know many of us started during an emergency.
>
> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was firm
> last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are right
> that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So, I
> started another email chain about training help.
>
> Step by step,
>
> heather
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherleson at gmail.com
> Twitter: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> Andrew
>
> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>
> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well the
> new contributors.
>
> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make to
> our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and assure
> we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality
> mapping.
>
> regard
>
>
> Pierre
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
> some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
> download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
> the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>
> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
> other mappers.
>
> - -AndrewBuck
>
>
> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVPsRiAAoJEK7RwIfxHSXb+jwQAMZhc8YlaIGFjM4sDfymuEMY
> bToXaaGT4zDC5lVdFzfDEs4/u5gNsolRWyuN3jMa+tMPCDmABBOehWdywAEN3zqi
> EItL6RmXn6rzOoglfGUHC26QkeI3l6nA359IbR9YL8vLld2QNGv7fqsXa6zoObp7
> /wmpXG/V9Chwf4ywtFo+eEGMvpDEykXM3fD0CLhHzNrex7iD+43O2LhZUN3kykrs
> unzREelpbuulpw9zhBa8tfBYNGZLj1slC3YyLomOaBS0Tr85Jarloa1KS2fkj6ye
> BF9M5F2+eXUv5I78dIt9LmloTZzcoSWJAlJkwmkykaj3uqqFBmjs16J1UWzHofFe
> pB218inZmo+ZhgzmElg/AgjppQvl276GYP0S/yFkmB/pOkAR5jBvw4r2SddzOeIb
> dYh4Wh0vh3sJn9FxXzWivj9qZvAwXsXggnRTyLoXOAaFCUYZTfX10nr0mdy5VjHA
> XGHZNGlyRjSC1yCLYQMrwmOUprbrD5qfv3I3uxOXuYqhu4SGvTHdKJe+vKLeAn9R
> QWnvqmd0OJ5ek7gu9z/AsGo3xHr8s5TJpiyKowUvRlxix5J04GOIHrW9srrxkD1w
> 9InB8+y4rrASNg1ylIrAcyxBe8ZLYgDgNKGOuSsMPL37Bnu2JwBfzksyzzPmEBAy
> 348dbGr81F22yS3kf9FX
> =Xj3x
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Pete Masters*
> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
> +44 7921 781 518
>
> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>
> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
>  _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Activation Working Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to activation+unsubscribe at hotosm.org.
> To post to this group, send email to activation at hotosm.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mhairi O'Hara
> Technical Project Manager
> Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
> Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475
>
> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
> *Using OpenStreetMap *
> *for Humanitarian Response *
> *& Economic Development*
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Activation Working Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to activation+unsubscribe at hotosm.org.
> To post to this group, send email to activation at hotosm.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CAByqXHJ%2B696RdYa8AF2-zX%2BHvobVjUM26FGPG7gxj_Y0mv_qwA%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CAByqXHJ%2B696RdYa8AF2-zX%2BHvobVjUM26FGPG7gxj_Y0mv_qwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
>   --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Activation Working Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to activation+unsubscribe at hotosm.org.
> To post to this group, send email to activation at hotosm.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/260045697.408575.1430484802450.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com
> <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/260045697.408575.1430484802450.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>



-- 
Mhairi O'Hara
Technical Project Manager
Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475

*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/attachments/20150501/b22ed6f8/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the HOT mailing list