[HOT] [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators

Pierre Béland pierzenh at yahoo.fr
Fri May 1 12:53:22 UTC 2015


At each intensive activation, we restart these discussions. We also have made such propositions before. But no consensus.

Yes we have to progress on this and continue to develop such organizational aspects outside of the emergency period.  I dont have time to discuss more on this at this time. Too many subjects at the same time :)
  
Pierre 

      De : Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org>
 À : Activation WG <activation at hotosm.org> 
Cc : "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org> 
 Envoyé le : Vendredi 1 mai 2015 8h37
 Objet : Re: [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators
   
Hey Severin,
I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status, after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being able to map non-validated tasks.
Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers' could guide the beginners here too.
I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the Activation process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible Activation WG meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and tools that will be able to assist.
Cheers,
Mhairi


On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an extra step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a great asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data produced through the Activation. 
If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is actually the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, please send an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access future TM jobs with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two folds (road network vs the rest). 

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:

NIck and I made this wikipage about it: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data

I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and republish the job.
Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and 
- clean everything with the validator
- add mssing objects
- improve the data consistency (especially the road network) 
- improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network, according to the agreed scheme)

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:

Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, please do.
I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
  
Pierre 

      De : Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
 À : "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org> 
 Envoyé le : Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
 Objet : Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
   
Hi,

We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org> wrote:



Fellow mappers,
Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a critical issue.  However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof, and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain from contributing.
Heather already started drafting training support.  When we circulate the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to local community's group for newbies to find help.  People also wanted to create screencast for specific tasks.
As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to participate in a project others criticize:
- Are the maps actually being used?- If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or incomplete?- What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you shouldn't do it".  But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously to make HOT even more awesome.
Best,clkao

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:

This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
Pete
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great. I know many of us started during an emergency. 

For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So, I started another email chain about training help. 

Step by step, 

heather

Heather Leson
heatherleson at gmail.com
Twitter: HeatherLeson 
Blog: textontechs.com

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:

Andrew
This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great job. They were in the top list of contributors.
This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well the new contributors. 

I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality mapping.
regard  
Pierre 

      De : Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
 À : hot at openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
 Objet : Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
   
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I understand the frustration.  Some times the newbies do very bad, but
some produce very good data as well.  One thing that we can also do is
load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
download' plugin.  You can then scan over a large area and just check
the roads for major problems like you mention.  Even just a few people
doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.

Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
other mappers.

- -AndrewBuck


On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
> If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
> change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
> Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
> are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
> with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
> tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
> validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
> #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
> on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
> have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these 
> beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
> roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
> validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
> favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
> on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is 
> extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
> those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
> and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
> because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
> correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
> the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
> better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
> policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
> 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
> are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
> being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
> producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
> also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
> nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
> over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have 
> identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
> open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
> experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
> crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list 
> HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> 

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-- 
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Missing Maps Project Coordinator
+44 7921 781 518

missingmaps.org
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@theMissingMaps
facebook.com/MissingMapsProject
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