[HOT] [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for a pool of "Über" Validators
Mhairi O'Hara
mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
Fri May 1 14:18:10 UTC 2015
Hey Katja,
Thanks for your experiences as a newcomer. Your insight is highly
beneficial to improving the process for mappers that are starting out and
contributing to the activations. Welcome to the OpenStreetMap community!
Kind regards,
Mhairi
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Katja Ulbert <mail at katja-ulbert.de> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> as a newbie I think the idea of a HOT chatroom would be great! Although I
> read the beginners guide to JOSM it apparently didn´t cover everything. It
> would accelerate my work very much to get quick answers to my questions
> (unfortunately in my area there are no mappathons yet), instead of looking
> at tiles that are already marked as validated to get inspiration from what
> I see there or go through all the mailinglist posts to see if it has
> already been mentioned there.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Katja
>
> Am 01/05/15 um 14:37 schrieb Mhairi O'Hara:
>
> Hey Severin,
>
> I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can
> validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status,
> after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their
> mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being
> able to map non-validated tasks.
>
> Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a
> chat room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions
> specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers'
> could guide the beginners here too.
>
> I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the
> Activation process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible
> Activation WG meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and
> tools that will be able to assist.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mhairi
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an
>> extra step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a
>> great asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data
>> produced through the Activation.
>> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is
>> actually the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it,
>> please send an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access
>> future TM jobs with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two
>> folds (road network vs the rest).
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Severin
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <
>> severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> NIck and I made this wikipage about it:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data
>>>
>>> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job
>>> and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on
>>> the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area
>>> and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not
>>> correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and
>>> republish the job.
>>> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and
>>> - clean everything with the validator
>>> - add mssing objects
>>> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network)
>>> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network,
>>> according to the agreed scheme)
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Severin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data.
>>>> Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do
>>>> it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate,
>>>> please do.
>>>>
>>>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such
>>>> huge activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and
>>>> assure we develop appropriate tools to support such activations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *De :* Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
>>>> *À :* "hot at openstreetmap.org" <hot at openstreetmap.org>
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04
>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an
>>>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access
>>>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this
>>>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of
>>>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task
>>>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Severin
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <clkao at clkao.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fellow mappers,
>>>>
>>>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a
>>>> critical issue. However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes
>>>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better
>>>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof,
>>>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain
>>>> from contributing.
>>>>
>>>> Heather already started drafting training support. When we circulate
>>>> the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link
>>>> to local community's group for newbies to find help. People also wanted to
>>>> create screencast for specific tasks.
>>>>
>>>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during
>>>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually
>>>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some
>>>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to
>>>> participate in a project others criticize:
>>>>
>>>> - Are the maps actually being used?
>>>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or
>>>> incomplete?
>>>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery?
>>>>
>>>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community
>>>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to
>>>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you
>>>> shouldn't do it". But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously
>>>> to make HOT even more awesome.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> clkao
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <
>>>> pedrito1414 at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT
>>>> Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest
>>>> to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line...
>>>>
>>>> Pete
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is
>>>> great. I know many of us started during an emergency.
>>>>
>>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was
>>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are
>>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So,
>>>> I started another email chain about training help.
>>>>
>>>> Step by step,
>>>>
>>>> heather
>>>>
>>>> Heather Leson
>>>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson
>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long
>>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great
>>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors.
>>>>
>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well
>>>> the new contributors.
>>>>
>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to
>>>> make to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and
>>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce
>>>> quality mapping.
>>>>
>>>> regard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.buck at gmail.com>
>>>> *À :* hot at openstreetmap.org
>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21
>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration. Some times the newbies do very bad, but
>>>> some produce very good data as well. One thing that we can also do is
>>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored
>>>> download' plugin. You can then scan over a large area and just check
>>>> the roads for major problems like you mention. Even just a few people
>>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map.
>>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful
>>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for
>>>> other mappers.
>>>>
>>>> - -AndrewBuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote:
>>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to
>>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These
>>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives
>>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some
>>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed
>>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already
>>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal
>>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked
>>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I
>>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these
>>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected
>>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then
>>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in
>>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done
>>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is
>>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for
>>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them
>>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles
>>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to
>>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in
>>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any
>>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all"
>>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows
>>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that
>>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as
>>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are
>>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can
>>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the
>>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant
>>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have
>>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to
>>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more
>>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this
>>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list
>>>> > HOT at openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Pete Masters*
>>>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator
>>>> +44 7921 781 518
>>>>
>>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/>
>>>>
>>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps>
>>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject*
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
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>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> HOT mailing list
>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mhairi O'Hara
> Technical Project Manager
> Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
> Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475
>
> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
> * Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing listHOT at openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
--
Mhairi O'Hara
Technical Project Manager
Email: mhairi.ohara at hotosm.org
Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475
*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team *
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
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