[HOT] Worried about task 1018

Nick Allen nick.allen.54 at gmail.com
Mon May 11 05:12:23 UTC 2015


Spring,

The guidance on validating is currently at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data

In theory anyone can validate, but the recent influx of thousands of 
newbies has caused a lot of discussion. I suspect that by the time we 
have finished the software will have been updated so that only those who 
....... to be decided, will be able to validate.

For HOT we need to be able to provide a level of confidence in what we 
produce, and that is difficult at present, in the initial stages as 
we've had newbies validating their own work, as well as each others. 
Nice green covered maps, but no confidence in the accuracy. There is a 
lot of work taking place to rectify this.

My view on validating has always been that it has two purposes:

    1/. A form of coaching, whereby we help each other to improve our
    mapping skills by giving guidance in the form of messages by the
    validator, and
    2/. Maintain a standard of confidence in what we produce.


We all make mistakes, and I would expect anyone validating any squares I 
have completed to correct any minor errors rather than invalidate just 
because one or two buildings are missing. The last thing we need is 
resentment. Everyone will have their own opinion as to exactly what is 
correct, and whether a road should be a path / track / or unclassified etc..

The whole process does not stop with someone changing the square to 
green, so many of the errors are corrected later, but it is a lot easier 
if they are not made in the first place, or quickly corrected by a 
competent validator who also gives encouraging feedback.

The whole process, together with information about sending messages 
using the tasking manager, is explained here 
http://learnosm.org/en/coordination/tasking-manager/

There are also sections in LearnOSM about aerial imagery 
http://learnosm.org/en/editing/aerial-imagery/  and in the following 
chapter about imagery offset 
http://learnosm.org/en/editing/correcting-imagery-offset/  but I'm not 
sure if they are detailed enough for the subjects you have been discussing.

Regards

Nick


On 11/05/15 05:30, Springfield Harrison wrote:
> Hi Russ,
>
> Thanks for that, I believe I had looked at it earlier.  It is a bit 
> general but good for starters.
>
> Specifically, what are the rules around validating tiles?  In other 
> words, who qualifies to be a validator and what does the validator 
> actually do?  Do they mark each mapped feature as valid?  Do they 
> correct features according to their own criteria?  Or do they just 
> peruse the whole tile and Mark the whole thing valid if they don't see 
> any gross errors?  This is probably explained somewhere, but I haven't 
> stumbled across it yet.
>
> I ask this because I see references to mapping problems not 
> necessarily being remedied by the validating process.  How is it 
> supposed to work?
>
> Thanks very much, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring
>
>
>
> At 10-05-2015 07:47 Sunday, Russell Deffner wrote:
>> Hi Springfield,
>>
>> We do have that, it's http://LearnOSM.org and is generally organized 
>> and maintained by our Training Working Group which I believe meets 
>> tomorrow.
>>
>> =Russ
>>
>> http://hotosm.org
>>
>> On May 10, 2015, at 12:35 AM, Springfield Harrison 
>> <stellargps at gmail.com <mailto:stellargps at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with the comments that I've formatted in bold below, Cheers 
>>> . . . . . . . . Spring
>>>
>>>
>>> At 09-05-2015 15:34 Saturday, Suzan Reed wrote:
>>>> Validating: Validation button only shows up for user with x number 
>>>> of edits/tiles completed and/or passing a quick validation test. 
>>>> Survey: Survey to all new users would provide data for improvement 
>>>> of OSM marketing, use, and training. The sooner the better. Where 
>>>> do you comment? Don't know where else to make these suggestions *as 
>>>> OSM seems to be quite scattered in training and feedback. One place 
>>>> to list all training: Would suggest someone take leadership to 
>>>> bring all training under one umbrella, i.e. a site where every 
>>>> training link is listed, with the goal to eventually have all 
>>>> training on one site. It seems to me a lot of highly talented and 
>>>> intelligent people are doing excellent work to provide background 
>>>> and training, but it's done ad hoc without any coordination.* If it 
>>>> were coordinated, what a treasure it would be. I volunteer to work 
>>>> on a team with more experienced OSM members to 1) set up this 
>>>> page/site at OSM.org <http://OSM.org> 2) gather all links to 
>>>> training in every language 3) organize them 4) promote them. Suzan 
>>>> Reed USA On May 9, 2015, at 4:49 AM, Severin Menard wrote: Hi all, 
>>>> I understand your worry Paul, and have the same experience of 
>>>> unvalidating tasks. I put clear comments for the people to know 
>>>> why. There is no offense I hope, everyone has been a beginner once 
>>>> and learning and improving is part of the motivation with OSM, 
>>>> IMHO. I just suggested this change in the asking Manager that 
>>>> should prevent in the future the fact that tiles are validated by 
>>>> beginners: https://github.com/hotosm/osm 
>>>> <https://github.com/hotosm/osm>- tasking-manager2/issues/598, 
>>>> titled: Validate button only for mappers who clicked previously on 
>>>> Edit with JOSM. I also hope iD will have in the future not only a 
>>>> building mapping tool, but also (as mappers may not use the 
>>>> building tool) an automatic proposition to square or round the 
>>>> shape that has just been traced as soon as a building tag is chosen 
>>>> (GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624 
>>>> <https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624>). The tools and 
>>>> the documentation apart, we also need to organize and exchange 
>>>> between us the people: who is interested in validation checking 
>>>> meaning also providing feedback or monitoring beginners? Basically 
>>>> you need to be a proficient user of JOSM and having a lot of edits 
>>>> (not less than with 4-5 zeros, I would say) It takes a bit of time 
>>>> but it is valuable and a nice way to interact. My hello to Suzan 
>>>> Reed who asked me directly for monitoring her tasks. We have a list 
>>>> (thanks to Pascal Neis!) of the beginners from the start of the 
>>>> Activation, some are drive-bys (typically only 1 day of mapping, a 
>>>> few edits) and others more to super committed mappers. I have 
>>>> started a spreadsheet for those who would like to monitor these 
>>>> committed mappers. Sincerely, Severin On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 10:10 
>>>> AM, Extra Paul <paulokoko at hotmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:paulokoko at hotmail.com>> wrote: Dear openstreetmappers :) 
>>>> I'm quite worried about the quality of maps for task 1018. Many of 
>>>> mappers, obviously, did not check the instructions or even the 
>>>> tutorials. People want to help, and that's awesome, but maybe 
>>>> validation should be done my more experienced and meticulous 
>>>> mappers. I've seen mappers validating more that 10 areas in less 
>>>> than an hour, and those areas still contain many errors : clusters 
>>>> of buildings mapped as one, landuse=residential area used for 
>>>> clusters of nothing more than 1 or 2 buildings, many streams seen 
>>>> as footpath, many paths in the middle of nowhere... Maybe 
>>>> instructions should contain some images to show clearly what is 
>>>> expected, and explain that the purpose of this map is to count each 
>>>> individual buildings and have roads and paths connected to them so 
>>>> buildings can be reached by humanitarian teams. Currently, most of 
>>>> my time on 1018 is to check validated areas because half of those 
>>>> areas are not correctly mapped. Paul 
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-- 

Nick

Volunteer 'Tallguy' for 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy

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