[HOT] Idle curiosity

john whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Sun Oct 11 23:36:56 UTC 2015


No what I'm saying is not that local wishes should not be respected.  I'm
merely looking at it from a world of economic efficiency, which I admit is
very different from real life.

Normally one would use GIS information to locate communication towers in
the optimal places.  ie maps and population counts, a census if you like.
The question was how do you find the most efficient locations in the
absence of such information.

I assume that we would want the country to be run in an efficient manner,
which is a gross assumption given that the world bank has noted that it
often costs them twice as much to build a road as the same road costs in a
nearby country in Africa.

My suspicion is that basic information is not readily available and that
better information would lead to better decisions, ie a better life at less
cost.  If you don't know the problem areas then you can't solve the
problems and generally speaking civil servants have the responsibility for
gathering this information.

I am aware that that when China ran a census many census collectors
illegally tried to collect money from the people they were counting so
perhaps that is why I used the term educated civil servants meaning a civil
service that is not corrupt but corruption is a problem the world over and
probably not a suitable topic for the list.

> If the local citizenry wishes to educate their government and
engage/develop governmental services, they will.

Do they understand enough about the pros and cons, are they able to read
both sides of the argument or will they simply accept what someone in
authority tells them?

Cheerio John

On 11 October 2015 at 19:14, Tajalli Spencer <tajalli_spencer at mindspring.com
> wrote:

> What you trivialize as a "whim" is quite likely a decision based a deeply
> held values applied in a very personal, local, small scale fashion.  The
> choice may be informed by a vastly different world view with an aesthetic
> expression that can be quite confounding when taken out of context.  How a
> consensus is arrived at elsewhere can be very different from what you're
> accustomed to.
>
> You only see the position of a communication tower on a map, but you don't
> understand why that spot was chosen because you don't understand the local
> culture or have the physical experience of the environment at small scale.
> If the local citizenry wishes to educate their government and
> engage/develop governmental services, they will.  And if they wish to
> operate in a fashion that seems to you independent of their government,
> they will.  It is simply their own business how they accomplish their goals.
>
> If I want an educated civil service, I will educate my own local civil
> service.  Help given elsewhere is according to the wish to receive it,
> independent of my opinion of what they should have.  Otherwise, I would be
> setting myself up as better than those whom I'm aiding.
>
> Tajalli
>
>
> On 10/11/15 12:38 PM, john whelan wrote:
>
> So what you're saying essentially is no centralised planning as we know it
> and the presence of schools is more at the whim of the locals rather than
> government responding to needs.  In the short term NGOs work but I think in
> the longer term it sounds as if we should be trying to create a reasonably
> educated civil service.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11 October 2015 at 14:35, Tajalli Spencer <
> tajalli_spencer at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Factors for locating a school would be similar for selecting a site for a
>> homestead:  is the land available?  are there some nice trees or other
>> features to moderate weather extremes?  perhaps water availability as well
>> as protection from flooding? where's the bulk of the existing population?
>> where does the person or church/mosque/temple etc that sponsors the
>> education exist/reside?
>>
>> Similarly for communications towers:  land availability, road access for
>> building it, adjacency to population and other towers, protection from
>> flooding, absence of hills/mountains that would block transmission, not on
>> a sacred site.
>>
>> On 10/11/15 10:11 AM, john whelan wrote:
>>
>> When mapping I stumble across communication towers from time to time.  I
>> assume these are for mobile phones.  After we map you can see the rough
>> size of towns and villages etc. but before then how do people decide where
>> to locate these and other such things as schools?
>>
>> In other words how do you plan without maps?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>>
>
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