[HOT] Squared buildings

Thu Apr 14 15:17:07 UTC 2016

Hi Sev, apologies - I posted that last message before I saw yours - it got
delayed for some reason...

I think I should expand a little on what I meant. I use JOSM to select
buildings for squaring at the end of validating a square. If there are
circular huts or complicated (but well-mapped) buildings, then I either do
it manually or deselect these before squaring. I would not suggest that
every validator select all buildings and hit Q at the beginning of
validating a task.

>From what I have seen, apart from those that validate by mistake (which I
do realise happens), most validators are very careful with the data.

Pete

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This would be IMHO an horrible practice, for the complex buildings skilled
> mappers took the time to map + basically all the round huts.
> As a common OSM rule is not to tag for the rendering, a new one should be
> not to distord the data because of the shortcomings of an editing tool. ID
> should propose a building tool or automatically propose to square the
> buildings to anyone having drawn a surface and tag it as a building.
> Basically it is IMHO a few hours of code vs tons of hours for validators to
> clean the crappy data. I had a brief discussion about this with someone
> from Mapbox during the Nepal activation, when it was obvious the higher
> proportion of new mappers was producing data with lower quality than usual
> during activations. People from Mapbox, please consider to improve iD in
> this way.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
> Le 14 avr. 2016 11:44, "john whelan" <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> I think we are agreed that squaring individual buildings is a hassle for
>> the validators.
>>
>> Do I hear that selecting all buildings with less than 7 nodes and
>> squaring/resquaring them all at once is acceptable although not ideal?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> On 14 April 2016 at 04:15, Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It would be far better to add a tool comparable to buildings-tools
>>> plugin to iD. We should have proposed that for GSoC2016... well, maybe next
>>> year.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>> 2016-04-14 9:47 GMT+02:00 Suzan Reed <suzan at suzanreed.com>:
>>>
>>>> JOSM is the tool to use, I agree. However I did become somewhat of an
>>>> iD power user and so I just tried to square a number of polygons at once
>>>> rather than one at a time. I tried many variations including selecting all
>>>> of them and then trying to apply the “s” tool and grouping them. Nothing
>>>> worked. Maybe the iD team could add that to iD? Then new mappers could then
>>>> square all their buildings in one go when the mistake is pointed out. It
>>>> would be quite useful. Squaring buildings in either iD or JOSM is a
>>>> thankless and tedious task.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> Suzan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 11:01 PM, Ralf Stephan <gtrwst9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I might be missing something but what's wrong with selecting all
>>>> buildings in JOSM via Search (check if there are huts selected or 45-degree
>>>> buildings of course) and then do a mass orthogonalization? That would be
>>>> part of a validation workflow and could even be automated.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 7:48 AM Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If you want a building squared at 45 degrees in JOSM, for some reason,
>>>> you can start with a closed way with 8 nodes, then use the circle tool.
>>>>
>>>> Or you can press 'a' twice, allowing you to add the next part of a way
>>>> at 15 degree angle intervals. It's possible to create really nice geometric
>>>> shapes using this method.
>>>>
>>>> One has to know the tool one is working with.
>>>>
>>>> When people insist on working with iD, it's necessary to tell them
>>>> (over and over again) about the importance of doing the extra step of
>>>> squaring the rectangular buildings. For one thing, it makes using JOSM's
>>>> extrude tool easier, if it's needed to improve the building.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that, as a validator, it's extremely tedious to square all
>>>> those buildings, even when using the todo plugin and pressing ]q]q]q]q]q]
>>>> hundreds of times. You could invalidate the tiles which contain mostly
>>>> unsquared buildings. Or you could just leave them alone, post a remark to
>>>> the user and validate the tile anyway. Better that than becoming burned out
>>>> as a validator.
>>>>
>>>> I've been trying to get people to understand how much work it is to
>>>> validate their tiles, when buildings are not squared by creating
>>>> screencasts and posting a link to it in the comment field. This was rather
>>>> effective, but it still is rather time consuming and there are always new
>>>> users coming in, which, for some reason, were not trained with JOSM the
>>>> power tool, but with iD instead.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, those screencasts were also meant as a way to show people the
>>>> advantages of using JOSM, but I don't know if I have been very successful
>>>> at getting them to start using it. It's hard to make people switch to
>>>> something new, which is why I'll be teaching only JOSM, this Saturday (also
>>>> because I don't know iD all that well, ofc). I failed to follow up, as I
>>>> moved on to other projects that gave me more satisfaction (as a validator).
>>>>
>>>> Polyglot
>>>>
>>>> 2016-04-14 4:15 GMT+02:00 Suzan Reed <suzan at suzanreed.com>:
>>>> How about showing people how to map a building and square it right at
>>>> the beginning of mapping? It’s all one motion for me.
>>>>
>>>> Just a suggestion!
>>>>
>>>> Suzan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 7:05 PM, Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:52 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Seeing 200 unsquared buildings by one mapper on a tile makes me think
>>>> they weren't using JOSM and the building-tool.  I could be wrong, the same
>>>> mapper also left behind three area=yes squares that just happened to be the
>>>> same as a building image.  Again it is perfectly possible to do this in
>>>> JOSM to draw such a shape and tag it area=yes, though why anyone with JOSM
>>>> and the building_tool plugin would do such a thing I can't imagine.
>>>>
>>>> I'm asking a pragmatic question given that I'm seeing so many unsquared
>>>> buildings when validating is it essential they be squared?  and if so how
>>>> do we get squared buildings?
>>>>
>>>> From my experience with hosting Missing Maps and HOT mapathons many of
>>>> the mappers are first time contributors. We try to get them mapping as
>>>> quickly as possible. After a period of time we introduce new techniques,
>>>> such as squaring buildings and copy paste. The behavior you observed may be
>>>> the lack of training. If its possible to find out if the mapper attended an
>>>> event and if so who organized it to give gentle constructive feedback to
>>>> the host. (Hopefully it wasn't one of ours)
>>>>
>>>> Clifford
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> @osm_seattle
>>>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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*Pete Masters*
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