[HOT] [Osmf-talk] [hotosm-membership] Re: Code of Conduct Reminder

[Ian Schuler]

I don't have a background in social behavior, but I've worked for a long
time on freedom of expression, so let me take a crack here.

I think that it is important to recognize to all sides of this argument are
pro-speech. All want to see the best ideas rise. But they have slightly
different worldviews about how best to do that.

One side sees any restrictions on speech as worrisome and a potential
slippery slope. They are concerned that rules are likely to be abused by
people to stifle conversations that are uncomfortable to some, but
important to have.

The other side sees this as a Wild West environment where only the most
aggressive voices get heard. When people behave harshly, even toward people
who can take it, it makes other people uncomfortable speaking up, and the
community suffers for loosing those voices.

Neither side is wrong. Both problematic at the extreme. I've found that
most people fall somewhere in the middle.

<IMHO>
My natural inclinations are biased toward the first camp. I'm immediately
allergic to speech restrictions, especially imposed by a government of big
institution. That said... over time I've learned that CoC are really
important for a group of more than a few people. In practice, the
communities from which I've gained the most have a clear code of conduct,
are vocal about it, and are visible in enforcing. Those groups exposed me
to voices that I wasn't hearing in other places.
</IMHO>

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Milo van der Linden <milo at dogodigi.net>
wrote:

> I feel almost all friction on this list, right now and in the past, has
> been between "those that want to organize" and those that do not want to be
> organized.
>
> The hot mailinglist is the only one in the openstreetmap lists I see this
> happen.
>
> Maybe somebody with a background in social behaviour could explain this
> phenomenon, why it occurs and how it can be resolved?
>
> On Dec 15, 2017 7:44 PM, "Dale Kunce" <dale.kunce at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just to clear the air. I misspoke in my initial post when I said the HOT
> CoC would be enforced on this list. I've since learned that the HOT list is
> not administered by HOT and thus our community crafted CoC does not apply
> here. Note: it does apply to all other HOT communication channels,
> including Tasking Manager, GitHub, slack, etc.
>
> As Mikel said the existing OSM Etiquette rules, however, do apply in this
> space.
>
> My earlier statement of asking all community members of this list to think
> twice about what you say on this list. This is not an effort to curb free
> speech but instead to build a positive collaborative space to discuss.
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Russell Deffner <
> russell.deffner at hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would prefer to participate in mailing lists that are governed by CoC
>> and enforced by an organized group rather than individuals.
>>
>> =Russ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan S [mailto:danstowell+osm at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 11:11 AM
>> To: Rafael Avila Coya
>> Cc: osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org; Mapa Nauta; hot at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [HOT] [Osmf-talk] [hotosm-membership] Re: Code of Conduct
>> Reminder
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> It does seem to me that more clarity would be good here, i.e. slightly
>> disentangling the lines of accountability regarding the hot@ mailing
>> list.
>>
>> Mikel's response has logical sense, but it's probably not clear to the
>> average participant in the hot@ mailing list whether they are
>> automatically made a part of the HOT community. Whether the best
>> clarification is to have two mailing lists, or for the info page
>> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot> to make clear whether
>> it is in general governed by HOT's rules, I don't know.
>>
>> Best
>> Dan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>
>
>
> --
> sent from my mobile device
>
> Dale Kunce
> http://normalhabit.com
>
>
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