[HOT] TM3 and validation

Florian Kratochwil florian at kratochwil.at
Tue Oct 24 16:34:04 UTC 2017


After checking out the new TM as validator I can say: Respect! I like 
it! It is way better than before and I am looking forward to validating.

I had one problem when validating multiple tiles of a user in JOSM 
today. I clicked the button to download the data to JOSM but I didn't 
get any OSM Data. I just got the imagery and the TM-Tile-Borders, but 
the "OSM-Data"-Set was empty. I guess this is not what it should be? In 
single tile validation I get the OSM-Data.

And I am curious what is behind the random task selection for 
validation. It is really random or is there some algorithm behind which 
gives me users which
  - haven't been validated recently or
  - have been invalidated recently or
  - are beginners or
  - have finished the tile just minutes ago or
  - ...?

I really was waiting for this button, because now validators can focus 
on validating without browsing for tiles. I think I will use this button 
a lot.

Cheers,
Florian

Am 2017-10-21 um 22:27 schrieb john whelan:
> I'm after the most recently mapped tile because that one is the way 
> they are currently mapping and that's what I'd like to correct.
>
> If I get a name that gives me one or more tiles.  Which is the most 
> recent?   If they are mapping in a group they may well have corrected 
> themselves or even by themselves they may have experimented then read 
> the documentation and corrected themselves.
>
> I've had mappers with three of four years experience who have 
> benefited from feedback.  One was using highway=track rather than 
> highway=unclassified because he once put in name=unclassified in JOSM 
> got an error there after used highway=track.  English even the US 
> variety wasn't their first language.
>
> You should know by now I'm awkward and do things differently.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 21 October 2017 at 16:08, Blake Girardot <bgirardot at gmail.com 
> <mailto:bgirardot at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I think you just want to sort by "last feedback" then.
>
>     That should tell you how long it has been since the mapper last got
>     feedback and if it is the same as their registration time, you know
>     they have probably never gotten feedback.
>
>     Can you try that and see if it is a fair replacement for your most
>     recently mapped task. I think it will get you the same thing
>     essentially.
>
>     regards
>     blake
>
>     On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 3:48 PM, john whelan
>     <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > Remember I'm basically lazy.  I do two things when I validate. 
>     The first is
>     > clean up the second is provide feedback.
>     >
>     > The sooner someone receives feedback the better the response. 
>     You get more
>     > tiles out of them and they are of a higher quality.  This means
>     less clean
>     > up for me to do.
>     >
>     > Someone confirmed the feedback loop and confirmed that within 24
>     hours is
>     > best then you get a trickle down effect so after a week you get
>     much lower
>     > responses.
>     >
>     > The other part is if I'm validating tiles that are a week old am
>     I going to
>     > annoy the mapper because they may have already corrected their
>     bad habits as
>     > a result of earlier feedback and yet these are still being
>     mentioned.  So
>     > the mapper doesn't get a warm fuzzy and to be honest it takes
>     longer for me
>     > to provide proper feedback than to have mapped the tile myself. 
>     Remember
>     > I'm lazy.
>     >
>     > So when I land on a project the ideal is validate the most
>     recently mapped
>     > tiles first then quietly clean up the rest.
>     >
>     > Does that make it clearer?  It's about problem avoidance or
>     prevention
>     > rather than verifying the mapping as such.
>     >
>     > The how long have they been mapping helps, some mappers I'll
>     take a quick
>     > glance at, newer mappers it's zoom in and look for a few more
>     things.
>     >
>     > Thanks John
>     >
>     > On 21 Oct 2017 3:32 pm, "Blake Girardot HOT/OSM"
>     <blake.girardot at hotosm.org <mailto:blake.girardot at hotosm.org>>
>     > wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Hi John,
>     >>
>     >> If you could explain just a bit more about why the most recently
>     >> mapped task is your main priority (sometimes)?
>     >>
>     >> I do not understand.
>     >>
>     >> I understand it has something to do with someone who mapped 3
>     months
>     >> ago, we now also send emails so time passed since they last
>     mapped is
>     >> much much less of an issue (Martin is going to maybe look at
>     redoing
>     >> his analysis).
>     >>
>     >> We actually started off with what you are asking for, but feedback
>     >> from users was they were much more interested in getting to the
>     newest
>     >> mappers the fastest, which is what we ended up going with.
>     >>
>     >> Maybe it is easy to add back in, but that table is already
>     pretty crowded.
>     >>
>     >> Regards,
>     >> Blake
>     >>
>     >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 2:37 PM, john whelan
>     <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>>
>     >> wrote:
>     >> > I've found what you are doing on the video, your accent is
>     fine you know
>     >> > of
>     >> > course that people studying English like what it is spoke
>     years ago
>     >> > travel
>     >> > to parts of the US to record the Americans as their language
>     has been
>     >> > isolated for many years so it much closer to English what was
>     spoke when
>     >> > their families emigrated.
>     >> >
>     >> > Yes I can pick out a user who registered ten minutes ago and
>     the tiles
>     >> > they
>     >> > mapped but that isn't what I'm after.  I'm after the most
>     recently
>     >> > mapped
>     >> > tile and that's the one that is the most valuable to give
>     feedback on.
>     >> >
>     >> > By the way I'm using cut and paste on the name displayed
>     below to give
>     >> > feedback with the @ sign or <Crtl>i to grab the username in
>     JOSM, its
>     >> > faster
>     >> > than typing it in as you were doing.  Some mappers are
>     naughty and do
>     >> > not
>     >> > completely map a tile, but their mapping still requires
>     feedback even if
>     >> > someone else finishes it off.
>     >> >
>     >> > Thanks
>     >> >
>     >> > Cheerio John
>     >> >
>     >> > On 21 October 2017 at 14:20, Blake Girardot
>     <bgirardot at gmail.com <mailto:bgirardot at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Hi John,
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Thank you very much for your feedback on the TM3, this and the
>     >> >> previous. And thank you for putting them in GitHub, that is
>     really the
>     >> >> best place for them.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> The TM3 has better than the most recently mapped task.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> The most recently mapped task tells you nothing about the
>     skill level
>     >> >> or the newness of the mapper. It could have been completed
>     by me, 7+
>     >> >> years in OSM.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> What I really want is to find when I am validating is the newest
>     >> >> mapper who someone has not already given feedback.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> No point in me giving a 2 hour old user feedback if you got
>     one of
>     >> >> their tasks 5 mins ago.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> That is what you can see in the Tasking Manager 3.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> I know my accent bugs you, so I made a silent video of how I
>     use the
>     >> >> TM3 to get the newest mappers feedback as fast as possible:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> https://youtu.be/BX8rzi2NqQY
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Let me know what you think of the workflow in the video if
>     you would
>     >> >> please.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Respectfully,
>     >> >> blake
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:06 AM, john whelan
>     <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >> > Typically when I validate I validate the most recently
>     mapped tiles
>     >> >> > first
>     >> >> > working on the principle that the faster feedback the more
>     likely it
>     >> >> > is
>     >> >> > to
>     >> >> > be effective.
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > If someone has already changed their habits telling them
>     that two
>     >> >> > villages
>     >> >> > two kilometers apart are probably not connected by a
>     primary highway
>     >> >> > but
>     >> >> > by
>     >> >> > a minor road three months after they have mapped is a
>     waste of time.
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > I can't see how to do this in TM3.  I need a link to the tile.
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > _______________________________________________
>     >> >> > HOT mailing list
>     >> >> > HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
>     >> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>
>     >> >> >
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> --
>     >> >> ----------------------------------------------------
>     >> >> Blake Girardot
>     >> >> OSM Wiki -
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot>
>     >> >> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>     <https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot>
>     >> >> skype: jblakegirardot
>     >> >> Live OSM Mapper-Support channel -
>     https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/
>     <https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/>
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > _______________________________________________
>     >> > HOT mailing list
>     >> > HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
>     >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>
>     >> >
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> ----------------------------------------------------
>     >> Blake Girardot
>     >> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > HOT mailing list
>     > HOT at openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT at openstreetmap.org>
>     > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>     <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot>
>     >
>
>
>
>     --
>     ----------------------------------------------------
>     Blake Girardot
>     OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot>
>     HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>     <https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot>
>     skype: jblakegirardot
>     Live OSM Mapper-Support channel -
>     https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/
>     <https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> HOT mailing list
> HOT at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

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