[HOT] COVID-19 - How you can help

Wed Mar 18 00:28:34 UTC 2020

Dear friends in OSM and HOT, these are trying, overwhelming, and perilous
times for all of us. Please let's be kind and listen slowly to one another
and support each other.

Sincerely,
*David*

On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 13:07, yo paseopor <yopaseopor at gmail.com> wrote:

> "I suggest you relax a little, if OpenStreetMap isn't fun try something
> else. "
> You have reason. I have to relax myself.
> I have unsubscribed from this list.
> Happy confinement.
>
> yopaseopor
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:51 PM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There are plenty of urgent things that HOT hasn't mapped yet.  What one
>> NGO thinks is urgent another might not agree.
>>
>> Take look at the Import mailing list and you'll find many blunter posts
>> there.
>>
>> There is a range of points of view within OpenStreetMap yours is one of
>> them.
>>
>> If you go back to the response to your first posts and read through them
>> I think you will agree they were more polite.  Unfortunately you seemed
>> unable to accept the advice given.
>>
>> Fredrick can come across as blunt sometimes but what he says often makes
>> sense and I agree with him about the dangers of imports.
>>
>> You are in a well mapped area.  The locals probably know where their
>> local pharmacy is.  From a medical point of view I'm unclear on how knowing
>> details of where a pharmacy is is important to COVID-19.
>>
>> There are no known drugs at this point in time.  Soap and water is
>> probably the most effective preventive treatment, that and not going down
>> to the pub or restaurant.
>>
>> For the record I have done a fair amount of validation work in HOT
>> projects until I grew tired of poor work that took more effort to validate
>> than map correctly in the first place.  These days I spend time cleaning up
>> the map, deleting duplicate buildings many of which have been mapped on HOT
>> projects,  connecting villages that haven't been connected with highways
>> etc.  I have had some experience with the import process and of gathering
>> together support for the local mappers to do an import.
>>
>> I suggest you relax a little, if OpenStreetMap isn't fun try something
>> else.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 6:25 PM:
>>
>> " But don't get me wrong. The problem is not the license or the
>> discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I demand an apology."
>>
>> One responsible of here wrote:
>>
>> 1. Nothing is urgent here
>> 2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from OSM
>> 3. You sit at home with nothing else to do.
>>
>> What do you think about this three topics? What if some one tell that
>> about one of the HOT projects?
>> Think about it.
>>
>> If some OSM user say that to other user that would be unacceptable
>> If some HOT user say that to other user that would be unacceptable
>> If some HOT responsible say that to other user would be unacceptable
>> If some HOT responsible say that to a user about user's land would be
>> unacceptable.
>>
>> I don't know  who you are. It does not matter.
>> yopaseopor
>>
>> PD: I'm confined. For the first time ever Spanish school (as European
>> schools) are stopped without date of return.Nor Civil War or II World War
>> stopped the school and confined all the people.  Also major part of
>> citizens of Europe are confined. It's time to act.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 8:57 PM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a difference between HOT and OpenStreetMap.  HOT adds data to
>>> OpenStreetMap and has to follow OpenStreetMaps rules when adding data as we
>>> all do.
>>>
>>> If you are mapping from local knowledge ie I can see this that is fine
>>> by OpenStreetMap rules.  The Import rules are for imports and are there for
>>> a purpose which is to protect OpenStreetMap from having data added to it
>>> that cannot be licensed by OpenStreetMap to its end users using the .ODBL
>>> license.
>>>
>>> Getting the correct license does take time sometimes, it took me some
>>> five years to get the local municipal open data license aligned with
>>> OpenStreetMap.  It is today and we are able import the local bus stops.
>>> Doesn't sound like much but we have all the phone numbers to dial to see
>>> when the next bus is coming.
>>>
>>> The quality of some imports made in the past has been less than ideal.
>>> Certainly there are places on the map that have tags saying fixme this
>>> village name maybe 2 kilometers out.  I came across one village yesterday
>>> with three different names which appeared to be from three different
>>> imports.
>>>
>>> Today imports are challenged routinely.  Locally I handled the last one
>>> because the person who did it before really didn't want to go through the
>>> aggressive challenges to the license and data quality that came from the
>>> import mailing list.
>>>
>>> Remember OpenStreetMap has many members, only some of whom believe that
>>> imports are good.  Some others think if it hasn't been surveyed with a
>>> mapper on the ground then it shouldn't be in the map.
>>>
>>> Cheerio John
>>>
>>> yo paseopor wrote on 2020-03-17 3:15 PM:
>>>
>>>   You insult me. You have said to a confined teacher (For 1st time ever,
>>> and it is not a joke ALL the education has been stopped in Spain sine die)
>>> literally: "you don't have any better to do".
>>>
>>> My first collaboration was Italy's 2015 Earthquake , in Amatrice. In 24
>>> hours I was mapping first the existed buildings, from Bing or something
>>> like that. 24 hours later I was tagging the same buildings following
>>> millitary data: red destroyed, yellow ruined , green safe structures. It
>>> was an emergency, we had to act in that moment, with no delay.
>>> I talk about this in a interview in a MSF Mapathon.
>>> https://beteve.cat/ciencia-i-tecnologia/crear-mapes-des-de-barcelona-per-fer-mes-accessible-lassistencia-medica-a-sierra-leone/
>>>
>>> That impacted me so much. That changed my life. Nobody's tell me, Hey!
>>> you don't have anything better to do (was on summer holidays). From that,
>>> have I gone to 9? 10 mapathons?
>>>
>>> 5 years later, in a National Emergency situation one of the "Lizard
>>> People" of OSM told me when I have to tried to complete the pharmacies in
>>> my land , with a data set with specific permission to OSM three things:
>>>
>>> 1. Nothing is urgent here
>>> 2. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a pharmacy is missing from OSM
>>> 3. You sit at home with nothing else to do
>>>
>>> Tell me one reason to collaborate with HOT for Burundi or Burkina Faso
>>> if I can't do with Catalonia or Spain, my land, with data which we have an
>>> specific permission.
>>>
>>> But don't get me wrong. The problem is not the license or the
>>> discussion. The problem is you have offended me. I demand an apology.
>>> yopaseopor
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 4:53 PM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 2020-03-17 16:47, yo paseopor wrote:
>>>> > "Nothing is urgent here. Nobody will suddenly suffer because a
>>>> pharmacy
>>>> > is missing from OSM. You are just making up an urgent task because you
>>>> > sit at home with nothing else to do." said by Frederik Ramm to an
>>>> > Openstreetmap volunteer who is confined at home due to #COVID19
>>>> > completing pharmacies in a zone, yesterday.
>>>> >
>>>> > Is this the way to promote HOT tasks or promote local mapping in OSM.
>>>> I
>>>> > don't think so.
>>>>
>>>> You didn't promote local mapping, you promoted an import that has
>>>> meanwhile turned out to be a massive copyright violation because you
>>>> decided to act first and ask questions later - which is exactly the kind
>>>> of "help" that I am advocating against. I don't doubt your good
>>>> intentions, but I am certain that every single person in the
>>>> humanitarian sector knows that good intentions alone aren't sufficient.
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>> Frederik
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
>>>> E008°23'33"
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> HOT at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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-- 
*MAPMAKER*
mapmakerdavid.com
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