[Imports] RFC for City of Basel Suburb Import

Johannes Singler johannes at singler.name
Sat Dec 30 09:22:08 UTC 2017

Hi all,

so the suburbs exist now, but no label is shown for them in Carto.
It seems that explicit label nodes are needed, although they are 
documented as being optional here:

Is this exemplary one okay?
Then I would add the other ones accordingly, if needed.


Am 29.12.2017 um 17:47 schrieb Johannes Singler:
> Hi folks,
> due to conflicts coming in on an hourly basis (due to touching the 
> borders of Switzerland, Germany and France), I have uploaded the 
> changeset already, with boundary=administrative for now (for keeping the 
> change minimal).
> We continue the discussion on on tagging and all, I can still easily 
> change that.  The important thing is that the changed segments are in, 
> as those caused the conflicts in the relations.
> Johannes
> Am 29.12.2017 um 14:32 schrieb Johannes Singler:
>> Hi Rafael,
>> thanks for your feedback.
>> Am 29.12.2017 um 06:22 schrieb Rafael Avila Coya:
>>> Hi, Johannes:
>>> Thank you for this work.
>>> I have just small questions about the import.
>>> I am not swiss, so I am not going to doubt that suburbs don't have 
>>> administrative significance, as you say in the wiki. But a bit 
>>> further down in the wiki you say "We will not import the 
>>> neighborhoods ("Wohnbezirke"), as some of their names are not 
>>> familiar to the general public, but seem to exist for administrative 
>>> statistical purposes only."
>>> So my understanding is that neighborhoods have some administrative 
>>> use, and so I find it a bit strange that suburbs, that are higher 
>>> level than neighborhoods, don't have any administrative interest (not 
>>> even statistical).
>> Both are used for statistical purposes by the administration, the 
>> suburbs even more so.  However, there exist no political institutions 
>> for suburbs/neighborhoods (at least not consistently), that was the 
>> main argument on the Swiss mailing list.  But maybe we over-interpret 
>> the term "administrative" here, it does not read "political" after all.
>> @Simon, what do you think?
>> In Bern, we have admin_levels both 9 and 10.  Okay, for 9, there exist 
>> "Quartierkommissionen" as political institutions (except for the inner 
>> city), but I don't know any political institution for admin_level 10 
>> (e.g. Breitenrain).
>>> Also, in the boundary=administrative wiki [1] it gives admin_level=10 
>>> for neighborhoods in Switzerland, so it might be admin_level=9 or so 
>>> according to the wiki?
>> Sure, admin_level=9 would be the perfect fit.
>>> In case of continuing with that tagging, I guess the suburb segments 
>>> should have a boundary=suburb tag (they come with no tags in the osm 
>>> file you share).
>> True, I forgot that.  However, the suburbs share many segments with 
>> higher-level administrative boundaries, should those then have the tag 
>> twice, or two semicolon-separated values for the key?  One more 
>> argument for using boundary=administrative, it seems.
>>> boundary=suburb, as a new tag, should be documented in the OSM wiki, 
>>> in case it's finally decided to continue with that tagging schema.
>> Well, it says "    All commonly used values according to Taginfo" 
>> there, and "suburb" is used in other places already.  "statistical" 
>> would be an alternative that is used even more often already.
>> Overall, the simplest would be to just use boundary=administrative 
>> instead of boundary/place=suburb.
>> Another argument against place/boundary=suburb is that the suburbs do 
>> not appear in address searches, e.g. "Terwijde" does not appear for 
>> this search:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=oskar%20nedbalhof#map=19/52.10646/5.03946&layers=N 
>> Johannes
>>> Cheers, and have an excellent end of the year,
>>> Rafael.
>>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative
>>> On 28/12/17 14:42, Johannes Singler wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> after discussing this on the Swiss OSM mailing list (talk-ch), I 
>>>> hereby announce the import of the suburbs of the city of Basel in 
>>>> Switzerland.
>>>> The one-time import is manual and comprises 19 suburbs.  It touches 
>>>> three country borders, though.
>>>> The import wiki page can be found here:
>>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/City_of_Basel_Suburb_Import>
>>>> I'm a local mapper living in the area.
>>>> Looking forward to your comments,
>>>> Johannes
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