[Imports] Worldwide fuel stations import, 59k objects

Ilya Zverev ilya at zverev.info
Thu Mar 8 14:15:39 UTC 2018


Hi Levente,

Thanks for reviewing the import. You have many valid points, which 
mostly come from the lack of documentation on my side.

0) Why do you think this import overrides any work? Adding new fuel 
stations certainly does not, so does adding phones and websites hurt the 
mappers? I'd be glad and more understanding of local mappers if you 
elaborated on this.

1) The wiki page you link to explicitly tells to use the E.164 standard, 
which mandates different notation for different countries. The wiki 
specifically mentions the format for US phone numbers. For formatting 
the numbers, I am using the Google's libphonenumber library. It is the 
same that is used by Android phones to format numbers, and I haven't 
seen any critique on these phones' formatting errors.

2) I guess these links were pointing to specific stations, but the Shell 
website was changed a while ago, making these links invalid. I'll 
contact NavAds about that.

3) With that gas station you have found that the source dataset has 
duplicates. OSM Conflator has not means of detecting that. But I will 
definitely look for any other duplicates, remove them and report back to 
NavAds.

Thanks,
Ilya

07.03.2018 22:32, Levente Juhász пишет:
> Hi All,
> 
> Generally, I think imports can be super useful if carefully executed. 
> This includes precise documentation. More importantly, as 
> Christoph pointed out, local communities should be involved as we just 
> simply don't know whether they've already put efforts into mapping gas 
> stations, or if they've already agreed on some country specific best 
> practices. I don't think overriding their previous work with a global 
> import is a good idea.
> 
> Also, I checked a few data points manually and have the following comments:
> 
> 1) Phone number patterns should follow the same rules within the 
> dataset. E.g. "+36 62 464 024" 
> (http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10201112) in Hungary vs 
> "+1 561-544-6012" 
> (http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10008561) in the US 
> (dashes/no dashes in the local part of the number). See the wiki 
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone#Usage) for example patterns.
> 
> 2) Some urls don't point to the specific station. E.g. for this station: 
> http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10201112  
>   website=http://www.shell.hu/products-services/on-the-road/shell-station-locator.html?id=10201112&modeselected=true will be redirected to: https://www.shell.hu/autosok/shell-station-locator.html#vanity-aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2hlbGwuaHUvcHJvZHVjdHMtc2VydmljZXMvb24tdGhlLXJvYWQvc2hlbGwtc3RhdGlvbi1sb2NhdG9yLmh0bWw  which is not a unique page of that station. Same thing with Shell in Poland (e.g. http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS353_10034854). In these cases, a general website pointing to www.shell.hu <http://www.shell.hu> or www.shell.pl <http://www.shell.pl> would be a better choice if you want to add a website. Additional url parameters here just don't serve any purpose without the correct pattern, therefore I don't think they should be used added.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the OSM Conflator tool but it would be great to 
> know what parameters it uses for finding already existing OSM features. 
> I randomly found the following example: 
> http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS106_1073560996PL0 which 
> shows a newly created feature (green) and a feature to be modified 
> (blue). In this case, those feature refer to the same gas station so it 
> should be a simple update. I'm wondering about the conflation parameters 
> and if you've tested different values and evaluated the differences. I'm 
> also wondering if you have a general idea about the number of similar 
> cases. This is the information that would be helpful in the import 
> documentation. This scenario is also related to 1) above since the phone 
> number is about to be updated with the same value, in a different 
> format. Quite possibly the updated pattern is the correct one, but I'd 
> ask the Polish community whether the old value was intentional or not.
> 
> All in all, this could be a great addition, but I think the import 
> workflow needs some more work.
> 
> Cheers,
> Levente
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:09 PM Christoph Hormann <osm at imagico.de 
> <mailto:osm at imagico.de>> wrote:
> 
>     On Wednesday 07 March 2018, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>      > Hi everyone,
>      >
>      > Following the recent UK Shell stations import, I've got ahold of the
>      > entire NavAds dataset. A major part of it are fuel stations all
>      > across the world: UK, US, France, Germany, Australia, and many other
>      > countries. [...]
> 
>     I don't want to comment on the import itself - have done so in the past,
>     nothing really to add - except maybe that i looked for documentation of
>     the mentioned UK Shell stations import on the wiki or an entry in the
>     import catalogue - both of which are required by the import guidelines
>     and neither of which seems to exist (and neither for this import
>     apparently).
> 
>     The import guidelines also clearly state that
> 
>     "You must not import the data without local buy-in"
> 
>     which leads me to conclude that for a multi-country import you have to
>     consult with each of the local communities affected individually.
> 
>     The local communities need to have the right to object to the import or
>     to have specific local conventions regarding tagging that the import
>     needs to follow in their domain.  Local mappers must not be required to
>     write here in English to ask questions and raise concens about local
>     aspects to be heard.
> 
>     --
>     Christoph Hormann
>     http://www.imagico.de/
> 
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