[OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived work - a real world example

Peter Miller peter.miller at itoworld.com
Wed Jul 4 12:47:04 BST 2007



Thanks for all the collective thinking on this one.

How about this legal device in the situation that the 'Work' is set to
music? If the CC-BY-SA OSM movie is set to music and the music is also
CC-BY_SA or copyright with CC-BY-SA permission then the resulting work must
also be CC-BY-SA (as it is a Derived Work).

However.... and here is the 'twist'; this new Derived Work is itself a Work
and could in turn be used as a Collective Work with the rest of the TV
broadcast and the TV broadcasters copyright is then safe. What one could not
do is to directly copyright a Derived Work from OSM an OSM movie 'set to
music', but this is not something that I require. My whole aim is to create
publicity for all parties and CC-BY-SA is the way to do that.

There seem to have differing opinions on the list about what happens when
the final CC-BY_SA Work is shown on TV, but I am not overly concerned about
that bit at this stage and many other sectors must have the same question.
What if a TV news program wants to show a home movie of an event that is on
youtube uuder CC-BY-SA? That is surely the same question and must have been
answered already.



Thanks again,


Peter


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Fleming [mailto:me at chrisfleming.org]
> Sent: 04 July 2007 11:47
> To: peter.miller at itoworld.com
> Cc: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived
> work - a realworld example
> 
> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > Peter Miller wrote:
> >
> >
> >> [...]
> >> The resulting work will therefore consist of OSM elements (creative
> commons)
> >> and scheduled transport movements (copyright) which are used to create
> a
> >> movie (creative commons).
> >>
> >
> > IAobviouslyNAL but, sadly, I don't think CC-SA allows you to do that.
> > I'm on deadline with the day job atm but will post more at the weekend
> > as to why not.
> >
> > In short, collective works (IMO) consist of "separate and independent
> > works", e.g. encyclopaedia articles. Your movie is one, merged work.
> > That's a derivative work. (In fact, CC-SA expressly cites "a work
> > based upon the Work or upon the Work and other pre-existing works,
> > such as a... motion picture version". Yay - it's OSM: The Movie.)
> >
> I'll should give you until the weekend to respond... but I'm reading the
> the CC license once again. I agree that what is produced by Peter would
> be a Derived work rather than a Collective work, but once again I think
> that we are okay here....
> 
> My "not a layer" interpretation of this is that Peter wants to create a
> Derived work which will be based on:
>   1. the OSM elements which require this Derived work to be license
> under CC-SA.
>   2. the "copyrighted" transport movements, in this case the copyright
> holders have allowed the movement data to be used in such a way and for
> the final work to be licensed as CC-SA?
> 
> In this case I can't see anything in the license that would not permit
> the movie to be created. From an OSM point of view there is no need to
> provide the source materials only to ensure that the license obligations
> are upheld in the derived version.
> 
> The TV example that Peter gave IMHO I agree that this would be a
> Collective Works, with the TV program showing the CC-SA movie as part of
> the whole. If music is played on top of the movie, this does get
> complicated. the license makes direct reference to what happens if the
> audio is CC-SA: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical
> composition or sound recording, the synchronization of the Work in
> timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered a
> Derivative Work for the purpose of this License"
> 
> but I think that we can apply this same logic, "if the music is combined
> in a in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching")" then the final
> music+movie is a derived work,  if the music is incidental then it's
> still a collective work. I accept that there is a big grey area here, I
> guess the factor here is if the music could be substituted for another
> piece then we're still in collective works category.
> 
> >> I will need to get this use checked legally before proceeding, but I
> would
> >> first like confirmation from the community that it meets the spirit of
> the
> >> project.
> >>
> >
> > Heh, I think it's a great idea, but then I'd prefer it if it were all
> > public domain anyway. :)
> >
> > Getting a legal view would be very, very useful.
> >
> 
> I personally think that this is fine, and think that the license if
> fairly clear with respect to creating the movie. But agree that a legal
> view would be very useful.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris
> 
> PS: Full CC-SA Definitions of collective and Derivative works below...
> 
>    1. *"Collective Work"* means a work, such as a periodical issue,
>       anthology or encyclopedia, in which the Work in its entirety in
>       unmodified form, along with a number of other contributions,
>       constituting separate and independent works in themselves, are
>       assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a
>       Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work (as
>       defined below) for the purposes of this License.
>    2. *"Derivative Work"* means a work based upon the Work or upon the
>       Work and other pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical
>       arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture
>       version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment,
>       condensation, or any other form in which the Work may be recast,
>       transformed, or adapted, except that a work that constitutes a
>       Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work for the
>       purpose of this License. For the avoidance of doubt, where the
>       Work is a musical composition or sound recording, the
>       synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image
>       ("synching") will be considered a Derivative Work for the purpose
>       of this License.
> 
> --
> http://www.chrisfleming.org/





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