[OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived work - a real world example
me at chrisfleming.org
Wed Jul 4 14:35:31 BST 2007
Peter Miller wrote:
> Thanks for all the collective thinking on this one.
> How about this legal device in the situation that the 'Work' is set to
> music? If the CC-BY-SA OSM movie is set to music and the music is also
> CC-BY_SA or copyright with CC-BY-SA permission then the resulting work must
> also be CC-BY-SA (as it is a Derived Work).
> However.... and here is the 'twist'; this new Derived Work is itself a Work
> and could in turn be used as a Collective Work with the rest of the TV
> broadcast and the TV broadcasters copyright is then safe. What one could not
> do is to directly copyright a Derived Work from OSM an OSM movie 'set to
> music', but this is not something that I require. My whole aim is to create
> publicity for all parties and CC-BY-SA is the way to do that.
Yes (and hopefully everyone agrees with me here?) as long as the output
from OSM ends up CC-BY-SA then you'll always(?) be fine.
> There seem to have differing opinions on the list about what happens when
> the final CC-BY_SA Work is shown on TV, but I am not overly concerned about
> that bit at this stage and many other sectors must have the same question.
> What if a TV news program wants to show a home movie of an event that is on
> youtube uuder CC-BY-SA? That is surely the same question and must have been
> answered already.
Good point; the same thing would apply here. If they showed the "movie"
as a whole then it's probably a reasonable assumption that provided that
this is being shown in full and unmodified then the collective work
probably still stands. However, if they modify the original work, for
example shorten it then this would constitute a new "derived" work which
would then be CC-BY_SA licensed, however this new work could easily be
licensed in this way and uploaded onto youtube as "OSM Movie as shown on
10 o'clock news" this would then be shown as part of a collective work?
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Fleming [mailto:me at chrisfleming.org]
>> Sent: 04 July 2007 11:47
>> To: peter.miller at itoworld.com
>> Cc: legal-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived
>> work - a realworld example
>> Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>> Peter Miller wrote:
>>>> The resulting work will therefore consist of OSM elements (creative
>>>> and scheduled transport movements (copyright) which are used to create
>>>> movie (creative commons).
>>> IAobviouslyNAL but, sadly, I don't think CC-SA allows you to do that.
>>> I'm on deadline with the day job atm but will post more at the weekend
>>> as to why not.
>>> In short, collective works (IMO) consist of "separate and independent
>>> works", e.g. encyclopaedia articles. Your movie is one, merged work.
>>> That's a derivative work. (In fact, CC-SA expressly cites "a work
>>> based upon the Work or upon the Work and other pre-existing works,
>>> such as a... motion picture version". Yay - it's OSM: The Movie.)
>> I'll should give you until the weekend to respond... but I'm reading the
>> the CC license once again. I agree that what is produced by Peter would
>> be a Derived work rather than a Collective work, but once again I think
>> that we are okay here....
>> My "not a layer" interpretation of this is that Peter wants to create a
>> Derived work which will be based on:
>> 1. the OSM elements which require this Derived work to be license
>> under CC-SA.
>> 2. the "copyrighted" transport movements, in this case the copyright
>> holders have allowed the movement data to be used in such a way and for
>> the final work to be licensed as CC-SA?
>> In this case I can't see anything in the license that would not permit
>> the movie to be created. From an OSM point of view there is no need to
>> provide the source materials only to ensure that the license obligations
>> are upheld in the derived version.
>> The TV example that Peter gave IMHO I agree that this would be a
>> Collective Works, with the TV program showing the CC-SA movie as part of
>> the whole. If music is played on top of the movie, this does get
>> complicated. the license makes direct reference to what happens if the
>> audio is CC-SA: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical
>> composition or sound recording, the synchronization of the Work in
>> timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered a
>> Derivative Work for the purpose of this License"
>> but I think that we can apply this same logic, "if the music is combined
>> in a in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching")" then the final
>> music+movie is a derived work, if the music is incidental then it's
>> still a collective work. I accept that there is a big grey area here, I
>> guess the factor here is if the music could be substituted for another
>> piece then we're still in collective works category.
>>>> I will need to get this use checked legally before proceeding, but I
>>>> first like confirmation from the community that it meets the spirit of
>>> Heh, I think it's a great idea, but then I'd prefer it if it were all
>>> public domain anyway. :)
>>> Getting a legal view would be very, very useful.
>> I personally think that this is fine, and think that the license if
>> fairly clear with respect to creating the movie. But agree that a legal
>> view would be very useful.
>> PS: Full CC-SA Definitions of collective and Derivative works below...
>> 1. *"Collective Work"* means a work, such as a periodical issue,
>> anthology or encyclopedia, in which the Work in its entirety in
>> unmodified form, along with a number of other contributions,
>> constituting separate and independent works in themselves, are
>> assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a
>> Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work (as
>> defined below) for the purposes of this License.
>> 2. *"Derivative Work"* means a work based upon the Work or upon the
>> Work and other pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical
>> arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture
>> version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment,
>> condensation, or any other form in which the Work may be recast,
>> transformed, or adapted, except that a work that constitutes a
>> Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work for the
>> purpose of this License. For the avoidance of doubt, where the
>> Work is a musical composition or sound recording, the
>> synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image
>> ("synching") will be considered a Derivative Work for the purpose
>> of this License.
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