[OSM-legal-talk] OSM license change - ODbL - questions

[F. Heinen]

Hey Richard,

Thanks a lot for the response. I read (quickly) most of the documentation
already. Seems quite a lot of work
and study has been put into this. Good work OSMF!

But even when it seems this is all needed and much better AFAIS now what
will be done if the community will vote against this change and/or only a
bit (<60% for example) will be kept of the data?

Regards,

Frank

2010/3/29 Richard Weait <richard at weait.com>

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:09 PM, F. Heinen <f.heinen.nl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Let me first introduce myself, I am Frank aka Frenzel. I am a community
> > member of OSM.nl since Aug. 2009, so relatively new but also quite
> active.
> > I hope I mail this to the right mailing list.
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> I'm Richard, an OSM participant from Canada.  I've been following the
> license discussions for a couple of years now but seldom participate.
> I think license details are important, and that the Foundation will
> get it right.
>
> I speak for myself only.
>
> > In the Dutch mailing list already a few times a discussion started on the
> > license change that OSMF likes to do (or is needed).
> > But the community doesn't seem to be convinced, are missing answers and
> no
> > consensus is found. So herewith some questions from my side which I hope
> can
> > clarify
> > the questions from me (and I guess from more of the community members).
> > Note: I want to keep this on a human understandable and general level!
>
> Okay.  I can do that.  I'm a human.
>
> > 1 - What (human understandable) reasons are there to change the OSM
> license?
>
> cc-by-sa is written for single creative works, like a song, sculpture,
> or movie script.  cc-by-sa is not designed to apply to data or
> databases.  Creative commons told us this after we started using
> cc-by-sa.  There was nothing else suitable when OSM started.
>
> > 2 - What information can be found so the community can read more about
> it?
>
> This is great.
> http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/
>
> > 3 - Are feasibility studies done on the following levels:
> > 3.1 - Data/DB level - For example how to do with changes of the data
> where
> > the original contributor doesn't accept the new license?
>
> See below.
>
> > 3.2 - Contributor level - What the changes are that reasonable amount of
> > contributors will accept the change?
>
> Depends who asks the questions and with what goal in mind.
>
> > 3.3 - Community emotional level - For example how the community will deal
> > with data that will not be move where people put in hard work, TLC and
> free
> > time (and maybe even money).
>
> I believe that the community is taking every reasonable precaution in
> the license change.  Also that the revisions and re-starts in the
> license change process have lead to a better, clearer license.
>
> I think that the change, when it happens will be much smoother that we
> feared.  I realize that we will lose some data, and that is a shame.
> I think that the community will continue to grow and thrive.
>
> > 4 - Is there any documentation based on what reasons we can convince
> > companies that donated data to accept the changed license?
>
> For years, this possibility should have been made clear during
> discussions of the donation.  For years.  If we missed that
> opportunity to get ODbL pre-approved, the similarities to cc-by-sa are
> very helpful.
>
> An Italian lawyer described ODbL as cc-by-sa without the problems.
> (see page 2)
> http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/archive/3/3c/20091205200018!License_Proposal.pdf<http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/archive/3/3c/20091205200018%21License_Proposal.pdf>
>
> ODbL is an Attribution, ShareAlike license.  ODbL is intended for data
> and databases.  The OSM community helped lawyers, expert in
> international law and intellectual property law develop ODbL.
>
> Folks who thought cc-by-sa was the right way to proceed should jump
> enthusiastically to ODbL.
>
> > 5 - Is there a roadmap of this license change?
>
> Sure.  I haven't looked at it recently, and I'm sure we're a few days
> or weeks or something behind "schedule".  Everybody involved is a
> volunteer.  I don't mind.
>
> > 6 - Is there a plan on how to implement this change?
>
> Of course.  And there have been many reviews of the plans from many
> individuals in the community. This has been ongoing for more than
> three years.
>
> > 7 - What are the minimum goals that this license change will be accepted?
> > For example on data level: how much of the OSM data must be put on ODbL
> to
> > accept it? So what if only 10% of the data is accepted?
>
> As I understand it, the need for change has been accepted and the
> license upgrade will happen.  Exact percentages are impossible to
> predict in advance.  But this chart is interesting.  50% of way data
> is contributed by 31 user accounts.  So if only those 31 users say
> yes, we keep 50% of the data.  I believe that way more than 31 users
> will accept the license.  And I believe that the vast majority of our
> data will successfully be relicensed as ODbL.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contribution_percentage_by_user
>
> > I hope you guys can "shine some light" on my questions.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Again, just my perspective.
>
> Also, I think it is important to thank the community for making OSM as
> much fun as it is.  We're all volunteers, participating in OSM because
> we enjoy it.  When some volunteer to do even more, like by
> participating the OSMF and doing things that we can't do as
> individuals, I think that is a real benefit to the rest of us.
>
> For example.  I could have asked everybody to send me money so I could
> buy a new database server for OSM.  Perhaps some folks would have sent
> the money.  But the OSMFoundation asked for those donations and we
> reached the fund raising target in less than three days.  That's
> fantastic and that's the benefit of having these great volunteers at
> the Foundation doing things for us.
>
> Details here
>
> http://old.opengeodata.org/2009/02/12/hardware-upgrade-appeal-thank-you/index.html
>
> Thanks OSMF Board.  Thanks community.
>
> Best regards,
> Richard
>
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