[OSM-legal-talk] use OSM data to select proprietary data

[Kathleen Lu]

Hi Frederik,

Here's why I disagree. The meaning of "derived" in a colloquial sense and
the definition of "Derivative Database" are not the same.
While colloquially, it may be fair to interpret "derived" as "made from" or
"could not have been made without", that is not the legal definition of
"Derivative Database".

>From ODbL:
“Derivative Database” – Means a database based upon the Database, and
includes any translation, adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any
other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial part of the
Contents. This includes, but is not limited to, Extracting or
Re-utilising the whole or a Substantial part of the Contents in a new
Database.

So a Derivative Database must include a "translation, adaptation,
arrangement, modification, or any other alteration of the Database or of a
Substantial part of the
Contents." In other words, it has to include in the new database at least a
substantial part of what was in the previous database.
The inference of "with pubs" would not be, in my mind, a "translation,
adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any other alteration of the
Database or of a Substantial part of the
Contents" because it is too minor of an inference.
I view Mattias's usecase as *using* OSM, not *making a Derivative Database
from OSM*.
I would also say that, looking back at the EU Database Directive, I do not
see a case for breach of the restricted rights, particularly the right of
"translation, adaptation, arrangement and any other alteration."

With respect to Mateusz's more extreme example, this is also very
specifically covered in the Geocoding Guidelines: "A collection of
Geocoding Results will be considered a systematic attempt to aggregate data
if it is used as a general purpose geodatabase, regardless of how the
original aggregation was accomplished."

In other worse, if, as in Mateusz's hypothetical, you attempt to abuse the
system to reverse engineer a database that is equivalent to OSM, you make a
Derivative Database. But Mattias has been very clear that is not what he's
doing. He just wants to display the subparts of a list of points he already
has on a different layer than the other subparts.

-Kathleen


On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 12:49 AM Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Kathleen,
>
> On 12.12.19 23:40, Kathleen Lu via legal-talk wrote:
> > No, ODbL does not apply to any database that does not include OSM data.
>
> Are you sure about this? Let me give an example:
>
> > If I understand your usecase correctly, Matthais, you are essentially
> > checking your list against OSM boundaries. If something is both on your
> > list and within the OSM boundary, then you say 'yes, this goes on the
> > secondary list.' Then you want to publish your secondary list. There is
> > no OSM data in the secondary list so it is not a Derivative Database.
>
> Let us assume I have a list of all streets in Germany with their
> geometry, from a non-OSM source.
>
> I want to divide these into two groups: streets that have at least one
> pub, and streets that have no pub.
>
> Using OSM information about the location of pubs, I count the number of
> pubs along each street, allowing me to make the desired separation.
>
> I end up with a database of "streets that have at least one pub". This
> database does not include OSM data.
>
> In my eyes, though, it is still *derived* from OSM data. It is the
> result of an algorithmic process that has made use of OSM data; if you
> will, the OSM data residue is in the name/description of my new
> database: "roads with pubs". It is derived from OSM; it could not have
> been made without OSM.
>
> Do you disagree?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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