[Mapcss] Development of MapCSS?

Martin Vonwald imagic.osm at gmail.com
Wed Mar 6 08:49:10 UTC 2013


Hi!

2013/3/5 Andrew Shadura <bugzilla at tut.by>:
> Hello,
>
> On 5 March 2013 14:02, Martin Vonwald <imagic.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 11:04:48 +0100
>>> I'm not particularly happy with what's happening with MapCSS. It's
>>> understandable when certain software doesn't implement some features,
>>> as sometimes there may be technical or other obstacles for that. When
>>> features are implemented a very different way, or implemented without
>>> prior discussions, this leads to chaos. And that's what we have now.
>
>> I guess that one of the reasons for this "chaos" is the slow (or not
>> at all) progress in the MapCSS specification. Tagging is evolving fast
>> and we need much more sophisticated rendering possibilities.
>
> It's slow because nobody's doing it. When I say nobody I mean 0 (zero,
> naught) persons. If a discussion started, some progress would be
> visible.

I understand. Usually there's a reason for such a situation. But as
I'm not involved (and never was) in MapCSS development I can't name
that reason.


>>> In my opinion, JOSM implements MapCSS in a very bad way, and its
>>> extensions are extremly non-systematic and against the spirit of
>>> CSS-like languages at all and MapCSS in particular. Function naming
>>> is very strange and is not easily readable.
>
>> Maybe it is a "very bad way" but at least it is a way. Pure MapCSS has
>> no way at all for such monstrous styles like mine.
>
> Sure, as nobody (zero people) has asked for those features. No
> proposals, no discussions, nothing. Just work behind closed doors.

Here we have a problem. Lets look at my situation: I'm writing a style
for JOSM. Actually it is my second style after some playing around
with another minimalistic one, so I don't have much idea of the
situation. I encounter some problems while implementing and so I ask
on the josm-dev if something was possible or not. Shortly after that
some new functions are implemented in JOSM.

So who's the "bad guy" now? Is it me, because I shouldn't ask on
josm-dev but on this mailing list? I had no clue about this mailing
list. Is it the josm developer, because he implemented something
without discussing it on this mailing list? He just provided some
valuable features.

And while we try to figure out who's to "blame" we have a short look
at the number of participants on this discussion. It's me and you.
Maybe that's the real problem - lack of interest. A short look at the
history of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapCSS/0.2 and its talk
page seems to confirm this.


>>> I think that it's a good time to put all information about various
>>> extensions into one big table and try to unify and systematise them.
>
>> Here we agree. But - and that's a big but - how intend you to get all
>> developers of MapCSS renderers on one table and agree on a new,
>> improved specification? And preferable not until 2016 but until - lets
>> say - end of march? That's the real problem here.
>
> Why not? This is an open mailing list, everyone's free to start the discussion.

Starting the discussion is not the problem. Getting people to take part it is.


I still think that a common style language is very important and
should be our goal.

best regards,
Martin



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