[Osmf-talk] CC BY SA 2.0 and backup plan

SteveC steve at asklater.com
Sat Dec 5 21:11:22 UTC 2009


I gotta say, the fear uncertainty and doubt you guys have put up on the No wiki page is pretty disgusting. Maybe disturbing.

It's an extremely poor show to sit on the sidelines all this time and then pile in with that kind of stuff.

Christ knows what the hell you're trying to achieve, and removing Matt's comments was pretty bad.

I thought you supported this project but you make every appearance of wanting to tear it apart.

Yours &c.

Steve



On Dec 5, 2009, at 12:34 PM, 80n wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Matt Amos <matt at asklater.com> wrote:
> 80n wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Matt Amos <matt at asklater.com <mailto:matt at asklater.com>> wrote:
>    you probably *can* publish a map based on a collective database of
>    CC BY-SA data and ODbL data, and the produced work will be CC BY-SA
>    licensed.
> 
>    i think you *can* publish a map based on a collective database of CC
>    BY-SA data and a derivative of ODbL data, and the produced work will
>    be CC BY-SA licensed and the whole dump, or diff, of the derivative
>    ODbL data must be available.
> 
>    i think you *can* publish a map based on a collective database of CC
>    BY-SA derivative data and a derivative of ODbL data as long as the
>    derivative doesn't "represent, in terms of obtaining, verification
>    or presentation, significant investment", and the produced work is
>    CC BY-SA, and the diff/dump of the ODbL data is made available.
> 
> I'm still thinking this through but how would you create the ODbL derivative database?  You'd have to do it without any recourse to the CC BY-SA data and I don't see how that would be possible.
> 
> the clearest example is if you create it with no recourse to the CC BY-SA data. for example, if you run osm2pgsql to create the two independent databases, you can generate (CC BY-SA) tiles from mapnik and distribute them. i don't see any license conflict here.
> 
> So how does mapnik combine the two datasets?  In memory.  I don't think the definition of a database requires that it be resident on a physical disk.  Mapnik has to either derive something from the CC-BY-SA data or something from the ODbL data, it can't use magic.
> 
>  
> a less clear example is if the modification doesn't "represent, in terms of obtaining, verification or presentation, significant investment". for example, if i have two apidb format databases and take the list of elements in the ODbL database and delete them from the CC BY-SA database then (it's my understanding that) i can still render CC BY-SA tiles from the resulting collective database. and, since CC BY-SA doesn't require that i release the database, i don't have anything else to release.
> 
> it gets even murkier if i do it the other way around, but if the list of elements in the CC BY-SA database doesn't "represent ... significant investment" then i think it's likely i can delete them from the ODbL database and only release that list. again, the tiles produced from the resulting collective database would be CC BY-SA.
> 
> The "significant investment" argument is very thin.  Any judge would immediately see that both datasets represent significant investment.  You would not just be dealing with simple isolated facts, but rather using the whole of the information in the dataset.
> 
> Whatever technical mechanism you try to use, the net result will be a derivative of both datasets.  That's using information that represents a "significant investment" however you look at it.
> 
> 
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