[Osmf-talk] Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation

Severin Menard severin.menard at gmail.com
Sat Nov 28 03:39:38 UTC 2015

Hi Blake and fellow OSMF members,

I think you missed the point. Of course everyone is free to disagree with
Nicolas' opinion. The thing is that expressing another opinion than the
official HOT storytelling is not allowed anymore. Since this thread has
been opened, a procedure for violation of the HOT code of conduct has been
started, I received a formal complaint against me and you, somehow kindly
but repeatedly, asked Nicolas, myself and all of those who would like to
raise another sound to just resign from the HOT membership. No less.

Hopefully, such behavior has not been the case so far with the OSMF. As
members, we could see sometimes intense debates between OSMF members or
OSMF board members, including on the general talk list, and this is IMHO
completely safe, allowing everyone to expose his opinions and views, and
help those who still need to make theirs to build them. Did this damage the
reputation of OSM or endangered the whole project? I do not think so. OSM
is about openness and transparency: any community based group or
organization that would to build something on top of it should constantly
keep this in mind, value and protect it, even if it may appear as
contradictory with the classic rules of business organizations. OSM is
designed to change the world, not to replicate its common codes.



 On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Blake Girardot <bgirardot at gmail.com>

> On 11/27/2015 8:13 PM, nicolas chavent wrote:
> As pointed out by Severin, and as noticed by some people on the
>> osmf-talk mailing list, the simple public expression of this concern
>> in this time of election triggered condemnations by Blake Girardot and
>> Kate Chapman both members of HOT US Inc.
> I see. So you should be able to express your opinion but no one else
> should be. Or should be allowed to respond and disagree (strongly) with
> your opinions.
> You are free to make statements all day long, but that doesn't exempt them
> from criticism.
> I agree, if making statements and no one is ever allowed to respond is how
> you see HOT doing things, that should not be part of OSMF. See we agree :)
> Cheers,
> Blake
>> Best,
>> Nicolas
>> On 11/26/15, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Blake and fellow OSMF members,
>>> Concerns about the representation of the OSMF directors have already been
>>> raised in the past and discussed within the mailing list. It is still not
>>> well gender balanced, with no representation of countries from the South
>>> and entirely populated by professionals in Geomatics. It may improve for
>>> some of these aspects through the next election. More women, people from
>>> South America, Africa, Asia and non professionals would better represent
>>> the whole OSM community, whatever the qualities of every candidate.
>>> In his email, Nicolas raised his concerns about the fact an organization,
>>> whose he is part and has been a director and co-founder (fact that I do
>>> not
>>> think he is hiding or would like to), would be actually much represented
>>> within the OSMF board, that is supposed to represent the whole OSM
>>> community as best as possible. As a director of HOT myself, I would also
>>> consider that “Hotties” (as we use to call ourselves) should avoid
>>> standing
>>> up to the OSMF if they can potentially be in majority and naturally raise
>>> concerns from the OSMF membership. It is an opinion, and there is nothing
>>> scandalous in it.
>>> Therefore, I do not understand why you use such a tone and uses
>>> inappropriate words, as quoted by Christoph. I will also add in it your
>>> final sentence, that may be appropriate to use for a child you are
>>> reprimanding, not for an adult. It is, unfortunately, so symptomatic of
>>> the
>>> way the people expressing a different view than the one in majority of
>>> the
>>> board since 2013 have been treated. Eventually, in a sense, the way you
>>> stand up exaggeratedly to protect what you feel being the reputation of a
>>> corporation and people from it, and the way you express how different
>>> opinions about governance can be considered within HOT, is actually the
>>> best advocacy you could make for the concerns raised by Nicolas.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Severin
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 12:51 AM, Blake Girardot <bgirardot at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi again Nico and fellow OSMF members.
>>>> You know, I was entertained by your original email Nico because it was
>>>> so
>>>> divorced from reality and lacking any substance, but now after not very
>>>> long thinking more about it I am much less entertained.
>>>> You are intentionally feeding the idea that there is a divide between
>>>> HOT
>>>> and OSM and there is NO divide: Great HOT people are great OSM people.
>>>> We
>>>> all are dedicated to growing and strengthening OSM and the OSM community
>>>> worldwide.
>>>> The people running for OSMF Board (all of them) are good people and
>>>> great
>>>> supporters of OSM and you have now ignored that and cast doubt on the
>>>> candidacy of 3 people who will be nothing but experienced, tireless
>>>> supporters of OSM (elected to the board or not). And not based on their
>>>> qualifications or dedication, because those are unassailable, but based
>>>> on
>>>> some unfounded idea that HOT will have anything to do with the OSMF
>>>> board
>>>> if these people are elected.
>>>> It is a cynical, intentionally negative view of the OSM and HOT
>>>> community
>>>> and I had a great deal more respect for you.
>>>> It is really disappointing that you would send this email based on
>>>> nothing, obviously no evidence or history, based on nothing but pure
>>>> innuendo and suggestion to cast these people in a negative light for no
>>>> reason.
>>>> I miss the old Nico, please try and find him.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Blake
>>>> On 11/24/2015 11:56 PM, nicolas chavent wrote:
>>>> Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,
>>>>> This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
>>>>> attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
>>>>> United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
>>>>> Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.
>>>>> Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
>>>>> HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
>>>>> former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.
>>>>> Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
>>>>> Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
>>>>> This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
>>>>> Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
>>>>> Foundation.
>>>>> This running of three candidates from the same organization is
>>>>> puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
>>>>> therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
>>>>> at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
>>>>> influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
>>>>> at the OSMF Board?
>>>>> A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
>>>>> concern in terms of :
>>>>> - balance of powers
>>>>> - diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
>>>>> - board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
>>>>> with single individuals.
>>>>> This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
>>>>> this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
>>>>> representing organizations) such as OSMF
>>>>> Here are some elements that OSMF voting members shall have in ming
>>>>> prior casting their ballot 28-Nov onwards bearing in minds that HOT US
>>>>> Inc and this perspective about OSM is already represented at the OSMF
>>>>> Board through Kate Chapman.
>>>>> The HOT US Inc perspective informs, like other perspectives, the work
>>>>> of the Foundation and has its effect on the OSM project, there is no
>>>>> need to take risks in providing this group with more room in the
>>>>> Foundation which is hot enough in these times of winter.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>> [1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nicolas Chavent/diary/36750
>>>>> [2]:
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM15/Election_to_Board
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> osmf-talk mailing list
>>>> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
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