[Osmf-talk] OSM and Diversity

Dan S danstowell+osm at gmail.com
Fri Aug 4 08:21:37 UTC 2017


Yes - I find myself in the confusing position of being very grateful
for Kate's message, and for Fredrik's message.

This recent discussion originated in the talk-gb mailing list. Now
that OSM UK has been formed as a hub for UK-specific work
http://osmuk.org/ I've been wondering if that will enable us to do
proactive work such as initiatives with school students (as Stefan
mentions, though also inspired by the initiatives mentioned e.g. in
Kathleen's slides). I'm only a peripheral member of OSM UK though so I
can't claim to know the mind of its board, but it might be possible to
get funding to improve diversity in our UK community. (Another
inspiration from Kathleen's slides: find money, take some concrete


2017-08-03 20:18 GMT+01:00 Stefan Keller <sfkeller at gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> I agree with Kate and others about gentle communication and doing
> small steps towards a better (gender) diversity. Obviously OSM should
> attract more non-male/non-young/non-white/non-rich/non-european
> members.
> But I don't see why we should ignore questionable academic disussions
> and papers. It's up to Frederik to take his time to dissect Andrew
> Hall's recent "Wikimedia Research Showcase" and Monica Stephens' paper
> on "Gender and the GeoWebHOT" 2013 (for those interested see other
> thread entitled "Live OSM discussion in ~45 minutes ...").
> There exists no unbiased map and I support the idea that VGI has a
> systematic and a project specific bias (see Muki Haklay's post here on
> "PhD opportunity on biases..."). I think we agree on the systematic
> bias. But IMHO also the project specific bias of OSM is neither very
> evident nor stronger i.e. than the average tech. project and/or
> association.
> So OSM is in good company like e.g. with many sports clubs - and
> computer science. Believe me, they are wringing hands in academia and
> industry there too. I'm co-organizing coding events for women like
> Girls Weeks, @DjangoGirls - besides Mapping Parties - having a great
> time. Unfortunately with limited success since years when looking at
> the low female quota in such jobs.
> Being both a computer scientist and a geographer have an observation
> though, which could give a hint: In high school, geographical and
> social departments the gender diversity seems quite good. And to me
> OSM has quite much to do with geography and society (including
> tourism).
> So, IMHO it would be worthwhile to find out the commonalities and what
> attracts women to engage in geography or social professions. And I
> don't think it's because of the majority of men nor hostile
> debaters/contributors nor code creators. It's happening at K-12 and
> before... (*)
> :Stefan (on the way to SotM 2017 Japan!)
> (*) Have you seen the children's activities at SotM-FR 2017? See e.g.
> https://twitter.com/assotiriad/status/869779597256257537 and
> http://openstreetmap.fr/sotmfr2017
> 2017-08-01 15:31 GMT+02:00 Kathleen Danielson <kathleen.danielson at gmail.com>:
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Just dropping in, as another woman who was on the OSMF Board, but did not
>> manage to finish her term. (Another fun cut was hearing "Good Morning,
>> Gentlemen!" being called out as someone entered a face to face board meeting
>> at which Kate and I were present, definitely not being gentlemen.)
>> I've mostly checked out of OSM these days, because it was exhausting (I
>> wonder why...).
>> If you're wringing your hands about what we can do about the diversity
>> problem (as I saw in a different thread), you haven't been paying attention.
>> We've been talking about this for years. Here's a talk I gave in 2015
>> literally called "Improving Diversity in OSM" [1]. Here's a list of other
>> OSM-specific resources that have been collected on the wiki [2].
>> I hope you'll take to heart the work that so many of us already poured into
>> this topic. I hope you'll also think long and hard about why quite a few of
>> us who amassed that body of work are no longer active within the community.
>> Kathleen
>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=WIzTEaMEc8k
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity
>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Robert Banick <rbanick at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Kate,
>>> I don’t have any brilliant contributions to add, beyond thanking you for
>>> this well spoken message. I agree completely with what you said and will try
>>> to remember the enjoinder of “just don’t”. I’m not a big mailing lister but
>>> I am certainly guilty of narrowing in on small things instead of addressing
>>> the bigger picture.
>>> I think it’s a great idea to include these principles in the Core Values
>>> list. I also think that really, 99% of people on this mailing list
>>> implicitly recognize those Core Values, if not always the best behaviors to
>>> reach them. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t recognize them, I just think it’s
>>> worth noting we are a community of good intentions, just not always good
>>> methods.
>>> Finally, 10 chicken statues?? 1 wasn’t enough?? This seems excessive.
>>> Best,
>>> Robert
>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 1:45 AM <ste at fraccaro.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi Kate,
>>>>      normally I don't write any message to the mailing list because I
>>>> can't read all messages and because my english is not so good. However your
>>>> email impressed me.
>>>> I agree with you. OSM should create a detailed map of the world. One size
>>>> don't fit all.
>>>> I hope to see also other womens in the OSMF board in the future    ;-)
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Stefano
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