[Osmf-talk] Proposal - OSMF Should **NOT** Adopt a Code of Conduct

Stefan Keller sfkeller at gmail.com
Sun Dec 3 22:24:37 UTC 2017


Hi Emily and Andrew

2017-12-03 23:06 GMT+01:00 Emily Eros <emily.eros at gmail.com>:
> but this space feels fraught with hostility and personal tensions
> - some of which goes years back.

Thanks for sharing your feelings.

Can you pls. point to a mailing list post where you experienced
hostility and personal tensions?
And if yes, I'd like to see if and why any CoC would have helped.

2017-12-03 22:27 GMT+01:00 Andrew Matheny <andrewdmatheny at gmail.com> wrote:
> What I think is happening today is that new users sign up
> for the mailing lists, they see what is sent back and forth,
> and then they either disengage or unsubscribe.

Can you pls. give some examples where this happened?

I'm mainly aware of rather experienced mappers who habe been engaged
in disputes (as its happening in any online community).

Would'nt a netiquette have handled that - perhaps reminded by others,
and finally by a moderator or OSMF group member?

:Stefan


2017-12-03 23:06 GMT+01:00 Emily Eros <emily.eros at gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> As someone who generally doesn't participate in these mailing lists, I very
> much disagree with this statement:
> "Some people feel frightened to participate in mailing lists? Well, I think
> it's very exaggerated and makes me smile in general."
>
> I can wholeheartedly say that YES, this is a space that I don't feel
> comfortable participating in. It's great to see people passionate about OSM,
> but this space feels fraught with hostility and personal tensions - some of
> which goes years back. It's easy to feel like saying something is going to
> leave me feeling attacked. For me, I don't see an obvious way to contribute
> and try to make this better, so YES, it is very tempting to just disengage.
> I know I'm not alone in that, so I'd really encourage you to take it
> seriously when people say that they don't feel comfortable contributing to
> the mailing lists.
>
> To me, it seems like all the loudest voices are the ones having this
> conversation. As someone who participates less, I can say that the existence
> of a CoC (carefully drafted, with community input and caution about how to
> design this well) is something that would make me feel more comfortable
> here.
>
> "In that context, and without any intention to offend anyone, I'd give more
> value in this matter to the opinion of people who are more likely to be the
> victims of harassment and abusive behavior, compared to the opinion of white
> males who argue out of the safety of their privileged status."
>
> +1 to that, and thanks to Nikos for pointing it out.
>
> My two cents.
> Emily
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Nikos Roussos <comzeradd at fsfe.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I have more interesting things to do in life,
>> > like mapping for example.
>>
>> So you only do one interesting thing at a time? Please let's avoid
>> undervaluing what other people may find interesting.
>>
>> > Any code of conduct will make people more or less autocensure. I can't
>> > see any interest of having that thing, unless for control.
>>
>> If a CoC make people to auto-censor from abusive behavior I'd say it's
>> worth it.
>>
>>
>> This is a nice read on the value of a CoC in a community:
>> http://incisive.nu/2014/codes-of-conduct/
>>
>> For those who don't have the time to read it all a very good argument is
>> that "you aren’t creating a code of conduct only - or even primarily - for
>> the people who are likely to break it. You’re creating it to make it clear
>> to anyone who has been harmed or harassed, online or off, that your space is
>> safe for them."
>>
>> In that context, and without any intention to offend anyone, I'd give more
>> value in this matter to the opinion of people who are more likely to be the
>> victims of harassment and abusive behavior, compared to the opinion of white
>> males who argue out of the safety of their privileged status.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> osmf-talk mailing list
>> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>
>
>
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