[Osmf-talk] Dale Kunce (OSM, OSMF and HOT US Inc president) on [OSMF] mailing list: "a viper pit of racism and misogyny"; a statement which minimally calls for answers and facts

Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshausen at gmail.com
Tue Dec 19 19:50:24 UTC 2017

Hi Christoph,

I'm not *spinning* anything, I'm spending my spare time to try and
genuinely offer my point of view in the hope to actually improve the
situation and prevent this in the future and you accuse me of having some
kind of hidden agenda.

I am not a lobbyist (and neither is Dale) I'm an OpenStreetMap Foundation
member just like you, I would like you to stop assuming things I didn't say
or mean. I have clearly said I disapprove of what's on on twitter and I
hope there is no doubt about that.

Maybe I was a bit condescending and I apologize, that wasn't my intention,
I was just trying to say that nobody is to blame and we can figure out a
solution if we want to.

These accusations hurt you know, I'm not spinning or lobbying, I believe in
what I'm saying and I'm really trying to help, please believe that. It may
not have been smart of me to discuss these issues on this thread, with
everybody being angry (rightly so) about this.

Anyway, you want people to speak up about being offended, this is it.


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Christoph Hormann <chris_hormann at gmx.de>

> On Tuesday 19 December 2017, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> >
> > It hurts when people tweet this kind of stuff, I follow Frederik's
> > sentiment. I have responded on twitter a couple of times when this
> > happens. But how we respond to this has to be different from what
> > we've done up until now:
> >
> > "It's not true, there isn't a problem, and let's do nothing!"
> >
> > This reaction is normal, [...]
> No, it is not and since no one here said anything like that implying
> people do and that it is normal to do so is demeaning.
> If anyone comes up here with specific critique on the way people
> communicate and treat other people and does so respectfully and in a
> tolerant way, supports this critique with solid arguments and most
> importantly is open to the possibility of being wrong about it, i will
> be the first to defend them against voices who deny this needs careful
> consideration.  But that is not the case here.
> Before the board elections Joost rightfully pointed out that it is
> important to clearly speak up if people make comments you consider
> offensive or otherwise inappropriate.  This is what is happening here
> regarding Dale Kunce's comments.  Frederik and Rod both pointed out in
> detail how that is the case with Dale's comments.  Please don't try to
> spin this into yet another 'we need a CoC' campaign.  It would be
> incredibly ironic if a statement by a radical CoC lobbyist that is in
> blatant violation of just about any CoC you could imagine was used as
> an argument for imposing a CoC on the OSM community.
> I am all for continuing the discourse on how to support friendly,
> respectful and open cross cultural communication in a growing global
> OSM community.  But do not let statements like that from Dale Kunce
> which trample on just about everything OpenStreetMap stands for
> influence this discourse.
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
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