[Osmf-talk] Fwd: Candidacy: OSMF Board

john whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Fri Nov 24 01:02:59 UTC 2017


>
2. OSMF board is a team of 7 and it IMHO really must stay
somehow independent. If 4 members would be very close to HOT I would'nt
call this balanced anymore.

This would be a concern for me as well.  Currently we have some data
quality issues many of which relate to new mappers mapping once.  I think
the London HOT maperthons expect to see 30% of their new mappers return a
second time?

I'm not sure if this can be resolved easily but I'm quite sure that "non
maperthon" mappers may have a different point of view to the HOT board
members.

I support what HOT is trying to do but I think conventional local mappers
when we can get them lead to better quality in the longer term.

Cheerio John

On 23 Nov 2017 7:22 pm, "Stefan Keller" <sfkeller at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd like to shift attention to following two aspects which could help to
> judge candidates:
>
> 1. A board member IMHO must have a good understanding of OSM. Although
> Severin's post was really very rude, it's bottom line is that he has
> doubts. Just now for example there's a Directed Editing Policy to be
> decided upon AFAIK also by the board. And I assume every member knows OSM
> inside out.
>
> 2. OSMF board is a team of 7 and it IMHO really must stay
> somehow independent. If 4 members would be very close to HOT I would'nt
> call this balanced anymore.
>
> FYI: From the board candidates, Joost Schouppe is not a HOT member while
> Heather is, and David Dean calls himself "an active participant of HOT
> mapping efforts". From the current board, Kate and Mikel both are HOT
> members. Disclaimer: I'm not a HOT member, though very open for cooperation.
>
> --Stefan
>
>
> 2017-11-23 23:49 GMT+01:00 Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nickerson at gmail.com>:
>
>> Please stop.
>>
>> My message completely failed and it was exactly this that I was trying to
>> avoid.
>>
>> Pete provided feedback and that is enough. No need for more. No need for
>> a trial by internet.
>>
>> I wasn't disagreeing with Pete, neither was I agreeing. I was simply
>> trying to say the feedback has been provided, hopefully Severin will take
>> this on board. Content wise there are some valid challenges (no comment as
>> to which). Let's allow Heather to decide which points she wants to respond
>> to.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Rob
>>
>> P.s. I have not read this whole thread as I simply do not have time.
>> Hence my annoyance that my attempt to keep us on the theme of the election
>> failed.
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2017 7:44 p.m., "Andrew Johnson" <andrew at gaiagps.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 1) I'm also not a HOT member, and I think the tone of this email is
>>> harmful to OSM, and will push people away from the community. Even when
>>> someone is running for office, we shouldn't reduce ourselves to ad hominem
>>> attacks, name-calling, and unsupported, subjective hearsay passed off as
>>> evidence. I don't think this is civil discourse (in any language), and it's
>>> not persuasive either.
>>>
>>> 2) The two actual arguments this screed makes are that the candidate
>>> doesn't edit enough, and didn't perform well in HOT or in organizing OSM
>>> mapathons. I don't think the former is disqualifying, since there is more
>>> to OSM than editing, and I don't think the latter is proven at all by this
>>> email's supposed evidence. It just makes it seems like the attacker has an
>>> axe to grind. From my perch, I see a lot of great service done by Heather,
>>> for the community, with well-deserved marks on her CV.
>>>
>>> My notes on the content below. I think a lot of people will now vote for
>>> Heather, ironically, because of this attack. It's notable that even the
>>> supporters of this letter mostly support the right to say anything, in
>>> whatever tone, and not the actual content of the argument (as far as there
>>> is any).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Severin Menard <
>>> severin.menard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heather,
>>>>
>>>> As of today, since you created your OSM account in July 11th, 2011, you
>>>> have been active as a mapper over 11 days, adding a total of 1 new highway,
>>>> 2 names, and 302 buildings[1]. No activity at all during two years during
>>>> which you were a HOT US Inc board director then its President. With 331
>>>> changesets, I guess you are one of the very rarest mappers to have produced
>>>> more changesets than buildings, actually because you have the totally
>>>> newbie habit
>>>>
>>>
>>> This amounts to name calling.
>>>
>>>
>>>> to upload every single building you trace with your very favourite
>>>> editor iD[2],
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>>> some of them being not even squared[3]... Seeking to join the board of
>>>> the OSM Foundation with such a high OSM profile is really shameless.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Name calling, and unsupported.
>>>
>>> A lot of us don't think there is any particular number of quality of
>>> edits to run for the board, and there's no shame in putting your hat in the
>>> ring.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course you do not emphasize this and you prefer argue in the
>>>> Election wiki talk page that you have been an intense promoter of OSM and
>>>> “hosted mapathons”.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This sounds like a highly leveraged activity. She's probably done much
>>> more for OSM than many more prolific editors.
>>>
>>>
>>>> But actually no, you have not. In any event you are part of, you manage
>>>> to have someone else having the required skills to run the mapathon or
>>>> deliver the .
>>>>
>>>
>>> Deliver the what? For all the talk of "let's not apply US/British
>>> politeness standards" - we can at least expect someone to carefully compose
>>> such a character attack, not just fling the bucket of bile out on the
>>> internet. There are multiple errors in this email, which goes to show the
>>> subjectivity and emotion involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It was myself in 2013 International Conference of Crisis Mappers in
>>>> Nairobi, Pierre Béland and Samuel Paul Alcé in 2014 IEEE Canada
>>>> International Humanitarian Technology Conference in Toronto and apparently
>>>> on November 15th it was this lady[4]
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why can't these people speak for themselves? Why is it appropriate for
>>> Severin to say they did all the work, and Heather did nothing?
>>>
>>> Also, why are Pierre and Samuel named, and "this lady" is not, and why
>>> the word "lady" instead of "woman?" I see subtle problems with how this is
>>> phrased that speak to the attitude of the author, and of course blatant
>>> problems too.
>>>
>>>
>>>> during the 35 people mapathon you mention in the Election wiki talk
>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't believe that she had nothing to do with these many mapathons she
>>> helped organize.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The goals you present in your Manifesto about community building and
>>>> governance mix platitudes (thank you for teaching the OSM community that
>>>> « Community-building is an essential ingredient in building good governance
>>>> and expanding support »,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Mix platitudes with what? Again here, for such a severe attack on
>>> someone, I'd expect the author to carefully compose a statement.
>>>
>>> I am sure that it had never come in mind to any member of this list
>>>> before) and issues that have been discussing for years like diversity,
>>>>
>>>
>>> The sarcasm here isn't something I see in professional communications
>>>
>>> If someone wants to pick apart her manifesto, do so thoroughly. Don't
>>> cherry pick some statement, and then demean the author.
>>>
>>>
>>>> though it is strange that you did not figure out so far that the OSM
>>>> ecosystem, including the one involved in the Foundation, is not reduced
>>>> only to “editing and building technology” people but has a large diversity
>>>> of skills. The diversity issue is much more related to gender, language and
>>>> economical context balances.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, you might compensate by a huge involvement in board related
>>>> activities. But not even this. For HOT US Inc, then totally unknown both
>>>> from OSM and the humanitarian field, you managed to directly join the board
>>>> in 2013, especially to make the NGO benefit of your high capacity in
>>>> fund-raising. For years, you did not disclose anything about it, pretending
>>>> confidentiality, but emphasized this supposed activity for being
>>>> re-elected, even if you did not collect a dime during this period. I was
>>>> also member of the HOT US Inc board when the NGO faced financial issues mid
>>>> 2015 due to jeopardized management and, having to make the fund-raising
>>>> becomes a reality, we discovered that you had not even produced a basic
>>>> strategic document so far, and other board members had to do it. And during
>>>> these hard weeks, you even complained once that you had to dedicate 5 hours
>>>> a week to HOT US Inc. I do not know if you realize how many hours many here
>>>> dedicate to OSM every week.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If this letter hoped to convince me that Heather shirked her duties on
>>> the HOT board, it has failed. I read this as a person who has an axe to
>>> grind, who had disagreements with an organization and collaborators. I
>>> don't think I get a complete picture of what was going on, on the board,
>>> from this email.
>>>
>>> And this was confirmed when I looked at Severin's wiki page: "I quited
>>> HOT US inc in May 2016 due to a total disagreement with both the ethics,
>>> governance and strategy adopted by the majority of the board of the
>>> organization over the past three years." http://wiki.openstreet
>>> map.org/wiki/User:Severin.menard
>>>
>>>
>>>> So, why are you willing so much to join the board of a community of
>>>> doers without being a doer yourself within this community?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently many folks think Heather is a doer, based on reading this
>>> thread. This allegation remains unsupported by actual evidence.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just to pin the OSMF board in your collection of voluntary based and
>>>> open projects you “led” the same way, and therefore continue to boost your
>>>> CV: according to your HOT US Inc profile[5], OSMF would at least join the
>>>> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team, Crisis Mappers Network, Open Knowledge
>>>> Foundation, Ushahidi, Random Hacks of Kindness, Mozilla.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is ad hominem.
>>>
>>> Her motivations for joining aren't what we should discuss, partially
>>> because it's unknowable, but mostly because it's irrelevant. What she can
>>> or will do if elected is important.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> But if ever someone in this list thinks it might somehow be interesting
>>>> to have among the OSMF board members a totally inactive contributor
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with the sentiment expressed by many that there's more to OSM
>>> than editing.
>>>
>>>
>>>> with a very limited knowledge about what OSM is, but with links with
>>>> other open source based communities, please keep in mind that Heather is
>>>> not an inoffensive collector of open source projects board medals.
>>>>
>>>
>>> More ad hominem, name-calling, irrelevant attacks.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Electing Heather at the OSMF Board membership would reconstitute the
>>>> former trio who in the past turned the originally open, horizontal, and
>>>> community rooted project into the very classic NGO HOT US Inc become,
>>>> highly tight with many organizations from the USA soft power (American Red
>>>> Cross, USAID, Peace Corps, US State Department...[6]), with quite an opaque
>>>> governance even for its voting members and internal repressive mechanisms
>>>> for any member defending other vision and practices for the NGO or
>>>> complaining about what is going on.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Grinding that axe quite vigorously here, in a one-sided, subjective way,
>>> and passing off a partnerships link as some sort of evidence of malfeasance.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am not surprised at all to learn that Heather is currently focus on
>>>> reviewing the HOT US Inc Code of Conduct (for everyone to understand: this
>>>> means turning it more severe for members).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can see why some people feel the need for stronger protections.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I really encourage the OSMF voting members not to make this happen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My guess is the opposite will now occur, helped along by this thread.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Severin (sev_osm)
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Heather%20Leson
>>>> [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/history#m
>>>> ap=15/18.9953/-72.4767
>>>> [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/53780169
>>>> [4] https://twitter.com/HeatherLeson/status/930800399451410433
>>>> [5] https://www.hotosm.org/eusers/heather
>>>> <https://www.hotosm.org/users/heather>
>>>> [6] https://www.hotosm.org/partnerships
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2017-11-13 20:02 GMT+01:00 Heather Leson <heatherleson at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I seek your support for the position of OSMF Board Member. Over the
>>>>> years, I have been so happy to meet and connect with OSMers. Please find my
>>>>> candidate statement:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Heather%20Leson/diary/42706
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance for your consideration.  Looking forward to our
>>>>> conversations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather Leson
>>>>> heatherleson at gmail.com
>>>>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
>>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> osmf-talk mailing list
>>>>> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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