[Osmf-talk] Candidacy: OSMF Board
Rafael Avila Coya
ravilacoya at gmail.com
Sat Nov 25 12:55:14 UTC 2017
I have read all the messages in this thread, and I am quite surprised to
see some people (like John Crowley or Joseph Reeves) talking about
bullying in Séverin's email. Séverin's message would pass unadverted if
he had sent a similar message to the one in this thread while John or
Joseph were replying to a proposal of HOT US organization by Séverin and
others back in 2014. Those messages were difficult and sad to read, but
I can't recall telling how people have to express themselves in a
mailing list. That's up to anyone, and I prefer to focus on the content,
not the container.
If I would put a limit, that would be of avoiding racism, genre based
attacks and the like. I don't see that in Séverin's email, nor bullying
as some people say, however harsh his email is. Simon expressed it
better than me:
"As you point out Severin is in the mean time well known for his fairly
aggressive critique of certain aspects of HOT Inc., but I didn't see
name calling, threats, use of force or any other behaviour in the mail
that would commonly be associated with bullying
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying) as Pete claims it was."
Another thing that counts is context. Yes: Séverin doesn't like Heather
at all. If he didn't, I am sure his mail would be very different.
Of all what Séverin says, I find very important, in my honest opinion,
that a candidate for the OpenStreetMap board should have shown a good
score of mapping. We are mappers, aren't we? I don't say that we have to
come with a million and a half edits behind, but at least a minimum
experience in OSM editing is required, specially if you joined OSM in
2011. It's my opinion, and the opinion of other very respected members
of the OSM community (Frederik Ramm comes to my mind; correct me if I am
To make things clear that this is not anything personal with Heather, I
can say that I voted for her 2 times when she was candidate to the HOT
US board (hoping that balance in the board of that org would make come
together two different visions of how the org should be organized), but
due to the clear lack of commitment on mapping herself during her 6
years as OSM user I won't vote for her this time (maybe in the future).
And it's a pity, because the board needs more genre balance, something
that Séverin has pointed as necessary too. I obviously don't ask all
members to agree with me, but it's my opinion and my free choice.
Code of Conduct: Personally I have never read a code of conduct. Not
really interested. Code of conduct should be using common sense, but
freedom of speech is way more important. Restrictions should be against
insulting, bullying, racism, and the like. I haven't seen none in this
thread, and it's probably extremely rare in the OSM mailing lists.
Séverin is not a candidate. But for those who don't know him, I can
assure you he is among the most dedicated members of the OSM community
I've ever known. You should see his commitment in helping local OSM
communities around West Africa (Niger, Mali, Burkina Faso, Togo, Benin,
etc.) organize themselves and grow as pure volunteer communities,
something that at least for me looks almost like a miracle. It was an
honor for me to be invited to attend a trainning meeting of 3 weeks last
year in Bouaké (Côte d'Ivoire), where I met extraordinary and very
active members, men and women, from those communities. Very inspiring!
And not to speak of his experience and hard work as a mapper, highly
active in different mailing lists. Thank you Séverin for all of that,
and I hope I will continue to learn from you.
As for what I want of OSM and OSMF, I will again quote Simon Poole here:
"To perhaps get back on topic (the OSMF elections), I believe you
actually touch on one of the important themes, not just around Heather
running for the board, but in general and which is one of the points
that Severin has expressed too: historically the OSMF has spent little
money and has more or less by design been kept small. One of the reasons
for this has been to not to have to take in to consideration the wishes
and demands of outside parties. To put it flippantly; so that we can do
our own thing."
Have all a nice day,
Rafael (user: edvac).
On 23/11/17 19:18, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> On Thursday 23 November 2017, joost schouppe wrote:
>> This quote to me is the worst of the text:
>>> Seeking to join the board of the OSM Foundation with such a high
>>> OSM profile is really shameless
> In German characterizing behaviour as shameless (schamlos) that you
> consider inappropriate or selfish in a very bold way is widely
> accepted - not only in everyday conversation between people but also in
> situations where a guarded and thoughtful formulation is usually
> While this is considered a strong form of critique - someone is
> criticized not only for what they do but also for doing it in bold,
> excessive or ostentatious form with complete disregard for it being
> inappropriate - it is not generally considered demeaning or defamation
> because it is a critique of behaviour and not of character. Referring
> to a person as 'schamlos' rather than to their specific actions can be
> different (depending on context) but this is very rare in German
> (except maybe as a hidden and slightly ironic compliment for boldness).
> Note this is not meant to say i agree with Severin's assessment.
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