[Osmf-talk] Board members with similar background (was: 2018 a third episode...)

Gregory sotm at livingwithdragons.com
Sat Dec 15 13:08:50 UTC 2018

Frederick talked about the "revolving door" of employment in industries.
Should we not encourage that in OpenStreetMap?
That if you dedicate your time to an OSMF working group or board position,
that a company might identify your passion and pay you to direct your
business-hours passion to their work. Now what happens if they already
employ someone who happens to be on the OSMF board, or simply that someone
from any industry is on the board. Should they not employ you? Should the
terms of employment require you to resign from the board? Is all that
healthy for OSM?

There is also the thought of where you drawn the line. What if your
employer wasn't doing anything with OpenStreetMap but (maybe thanks to your
encouragement/chat) they start using it. They might use it loads, they
might only switch the slippy map on their contact page, their usage might
be somewhere in-between. What if you're a freelancer that doesn't do any
OpenStreetMap work, or apart from that one week in the year where you did
some coding or consultancy about OSM and a company insisted on paying you
for it? Again with the questions. You might not even recall that work when
you run for the board, if they payment was some time ago or if you donated
it all(privately) to OSMF or a local chapter.

On a side note... If any companies are looking to employ someone with a lot
of knowledge and passion about OpenStreetMap, you are most welcome to get
in touch with me. I'm not a candidate for the OSMF Board. You will have to
give me time off in September to attend State of the Map, and understand
that I use a lot of my lunch breaks to organise the conference or to help a
Missing Maps project. I usually talk about OSM in job interviews, even when
it's not relevant. To everyone else, don't worry I'm not worried about
running for the OSMF board.

>From my home office,
Gregory (LivingWithDragons)

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 at 17:37, Severin Menard <severin.menard at gmail.com>

> Texte original en français, automatic translation by Deepl with slight
> changes below:
> Faire la promotion des deux candidats membres de HOT US Inc (et autant que
> je sache seulement pour eux) en tant que membre du board de l’OSMF (un
> autre directeur a-t-il fait la même chose ?) et membre de HOT US Inc (et
> ancien président de son board et président ensuite de ses membres –
> Chairman) n’est peut-être pas la chose la plus judicieuse à faire sur cette
> liste de discussion.
> Par ailleurs, certes chaque contributeur OSM ne peut pas être résumé à une
> seule affiliation à une organisation. Mais on parle bien dans le contexte
> précis de cette élection (comme dans la précédente) de la réunion au sein
> du bureau de l’OSMF non pas seulement de personnes affiliées par cooptation
> au sein d’une organisation (ce qui pose déjà des questions d’équilibre dans
> la diversité du bureau de l’OSMF), mais de trois personnes qui non
> seulement ont eu des rôles importants (un président, une présidente et  une
> directrice exécutive) dans cette organisation, mais ont agi ensemble pour
> mettre en place une vision très spécifique de son fonctionnement et sa
> gouvernance et ont lutté ensemble contre des voix et des visions
> différentes : verticalisation, non-transparence (réunions du bureau HOT US
> Inc non publiques, comptabilité annuelle non communiquée avant les
> assemblées générales aux membres ou en se contentant de la seule
> déclaration au fisc américain), intimidations et censure sur les listes de
> discussion et utilisation de plaintes (« formal complaints ») jugées dans
> l’absence totale de règles et de transparence (voir mon billet de blog L'histoire
> de la gouvernance de HOT US Inc - à ne pas répliquer à l'OSMF
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeverinGeo/diary/42924> publié lors
> de l’élection de l’année passée).
> Leur manière d’agir sera-t-elle différente au sein de l’OSMF que dans HOT
> US Inc. ? Dans ce même courriel qui fait la promotion des candidats membres
> de HOT US Inc pour l’élection des nouveaux membres du bureau de l’OSMF, est
> justement proposée l’instauration d’une modération sur la liste de
> discussion de l’OSMF. Il s’agit bien d’une réplication cette culture propre
> à celle qu’ils ont tous les trois mis en œuvre dans HOT US Inc. Pour qui ne
> le saurait pas, la liste hot at openstreetmap.org a une modération en place
> et totalement verrouillée par Mikel qui en a expulsé ou bloqué les
> critiques de la vision de HOT US Inc ou de son actuel employeur. On connaît
> également le militantisme très prononcé de Mikel, Kate et Heather pour
> l’instauration d’un code de conduite (CoC) qui une fois en place
> permettrait d’agir de la même manière contre les critiques de leur vision.
> A eux trois ils ne représentent pas encore la majorité des votes du bureau
> de l’OSMF, mais après l’élection de Heather l’année dernière, c’est
> désormais avec Geoffrey un staff de HOT US Inc qui pourrait être élu et
> apporter cette majorité. A la lecture de ses réponses aux questions posées
> aux candidats, il ressort qu’il est à la fois un fan absolu tant de Kate,
> Mikel et Heather que de l’organisation verticale mise en place au sein de
> HOT US Inc, qu’il propose de répliquer. Oui, évidemment, pour tout membre
> de l’OSMF qui ne partage pas cette vision, il y a de quoi être inquiet.
> -----------------------
> Promoting the two HOT US Inc member candidates (and as far as I know only
> for them) as a member of the OSMF board (did another director do the same?)
> and a member of HOT US Inc (and former president of his board and then
> president of his members - Chairman) may not be the most appropriate thing
> to do on this discussion list.
> Moreover, yes each OSM contributor cannot be summarized as a single
> affiliation to an organization. But we are talking about the precise
> context of this election (as in the previous one) of gathering within the
> OSMF board not only of people affiliated by cooptation within an
> organization (which already raises questions of balance in the diversity of
> the OSMF board), but of three people who not only had important roles (a
> president, a president and an executive director) in this organization, but
> who acted together to put in place a very specific vision of its
> functioning and governance and who fought together against different voices
> and visions: verticalization, non-transparency (HOT US Inc. Board meetings
> not public, annual accounting not communicated before general meetings to
> members or by simply spreading only the declaration form to the American
> tax authorities), intimidation and censorship on discussion lists and use
> of complaints ("formal complaints") judged in the total absence of rules
> and transparency (see my blog post The history of HOT US Inc governance -
> not to be replicated in OSMF
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SeverinGeo/diary/42924> published
> during last year's election).
> Will their way of acting be different within the OSMF than in HOT US Inc.?
> In the same email that promotes HOT US Inc. member candidates for the
> election of new OSMF board directors, Mikel precisely proposes that
> moderation should be introduced on the OSMF discussion list. It is indeed a
> replication of this culture specific to the one they all three implemented
> in HOT US Inc. For those who do not know, the hot at openstreetmap.org list
> has a moderation in place and totally locked by Mikel who has expelled or
> blocked criticism of the vision of HOT US Inc or his current employer. We
> are also aware of Mikel, Kate and Heather's very strong activism for the
> establishment of a code of conduct (CoC) that, once in place, would allow
> them to act in the same way against critics of their vision.
> Together they do not yet represent the majority of the votes of the OSMF
> board, but after Heather's election last year, it is now with Geoffrey a
> HOT US Inc staff that could be elected and establish this majority. From
> his answers to the questions asked to the candidates, it appears that he is
> an absolute fan of both Kate, Mikel and Heather and of the vertical
> organization set up within HOT US Inc, which he proposes to replicate. Yes,
> of course, for any OSMF member who does not share this vision, there is
> cause for concern.
> Severin
> Le ven. 14 déc. 2018 à 11:14, Mikel Maron <mikel.maron at gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>> That’s totally fair Christine. I didn’t have to go that far and say that.
>> Nicolas I apologize.
>> I do think we need moderation on this list, and if we did, I would
>> definitely accept whatever the moderator felt relevant (warning, 1 day
>> block from posting, etc)
>> Diversity of the Board is a universal concern, mine too. Being involved
>> in HOT is a strong sign of embracing and working for diversity in OSM.
>> Miriam is doing amazing work organizing in Mexico, across Latin America,
>> and with women. Geoffrey has direct experience of mapping in Africa in both
>> easy and very challenging contexts, helped organized SotM Africa, and is
>> bringing together mappers from across the continent. OSM has a lot to learn
>> from them, and if diversity of geography, language and gender in OSM is
>> something you value, they are extremely qualified Board candidates to help
>> us move.
>> Mikel
>> _______________________________________________
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> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
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