[Osmf-talk] Humanitarian work (was: 2018 a third episode...)

Dale Kunce dale.kunce at gmail.com
Sun Dec 16 19:35:32 UTC 2018


Again I wasn't around for those early days and only know first hand the
story I've participated in since 2012.

All of HOTs 990s (US NGO tax paperwork) are online you can see that for
years HOT wasn't and still isn't a money making venture. Yes HOTs finances
are in a stable place but that is because of hard work by many volunteers
and staff over the years to build a solid functioning NGO that actually
supports emergent mapping communities. HOT, the NGO, continues to prudently
reinvest in the OSM community and tools to acheive it's stated goals. It's
not some giant money making scheme that it's made out to be.

Bluntly, I'm tired if HOT being used as the boogyman on the OSM lists. I'm
tired of the anti-humanitarian vibe of these list serves by a small group
of very loud and active posters. I'm tired of being told that my mapping or
opinion doesn't count because I have a non-European centric view of OSM and
I wasn't around at some magic gathering in a pub 14 years ago. That just
because I got paid to do OSM I'm somehow less.

For OSM to grow we need many mappers, many communities, many partners. The
constant othering of folks that don't conform to your magic ideal of OSM is
old and tired.


On Dec 16, 2018 10:50 AM, "Simon Poole" <simon at poole.ch> wrote:

To be blunt: MIkel was a board member of the OSMF at the time and had a
fiduciary duty to protect the interests of the OSMF, just as the other
board members, naturally. I fail to see how protecting said interests would
have any impact on what contributors could map, where they could engage
themselves and what kind of activities they should support.

Simon
Am 16.12.2018 um 19:35 schrieb Dale Kunce:

>From my perspective, and I wasn't around during the early days, OSMF
basically abecated it's responsibilities for the type of mapping HOT and
other humanitarian groups do.

It's constantly said that OSM is a do-acracy. Mikel and the other early HOT
mappers did. They stepped up into a niche area that was underserved and did
the hard work. We shouldnt be angry that others were drawn to supporting
this type of work. We should celebrate and support it however we can. This
is the type of direct community building we want for our project to be
successful.

I 100% support OSMF getting more involved in supporting local mapping
communities through partnerships with those groups best suited. Sometimes
this will be HOT other times it will be with another local group. I'm happy
to share effective models we've implemented in the past few years.

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:18 AM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch wrote:

>
> Am 16.12.2018 um 18:43 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 12/16/18 18:13, Simon Poole wrote:
> >> If one tries to piece together the history of HOT, at least from an OSMF
> >> point of view*, it is very clear that HOT was sold to the board by Mikel
> >> at the time as ""our department" for humanitarian work".
> > Well - it is quite possible that, at the time, everyone was happy not to
> > have to deal with humanitarian issues and that, at the time, it *was* a
> > good idea to simply let folks run with it.
>
> Well that was the selling part, I believe it is fair to say that the
> board members at the time had been convinced that this separate
> organisation was a really good idea. But ...
>
> > Considering how big HOT has
> > become, I'm quite happy that they're not an OSMF working group, or else
> > we'd have a constant case of the tail wagging the dog ;)
>
> ... there is this small question of money.
>
> I know of at least one occasion during the time we are discussing in
> which, being nice here, funding opportunities were diverted to HOT and
> multiple later on in which interested donors were pointed to HOT,
> without the OSMF receiving a single cent. Any reasonable agreement on
> the establishment of HOT would have, a) laid down the rules on how the
> name can be used, and b) required that a suitable percentage, likely
> something between 10-20% of the funds received  would go to the OSMF as
> partial support for the infrastructure HOT was building its not
> unsuccessful business on.
>
> Now we do actually have the tail wagging the dog in that the
> organisation that was built with money that rightfully should have at
> least partially gone to the OSMF is trying to outstrip the OSMF in every
> aspect.
>
> Simon
>
>
> >
> > I don't envision the OSMF running huge aid projects. But it could
> > probably work to reclaim the "general interest in humanitarian mapping"
> > as a core OSM(F) activity, while leaving the concrete execution of
> > projects to bodies like HOT. It all depends on people willing to do it.
> >
> >> * I've done that mode than once, and always end up wondering what the
> >> board was smoking at the time.
> > I can say with confidence that no smoking of anything has happened
> > during the in-person board meetings that I was part of. (At least not
> > while we were in session.)
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> osmf-talk mailing list
> osmf-talk at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>

On Dec 16, 2018 10:18 AM, "Simon Poole" <simon at poole.ch> wrote:


Am 16.12.2018 um 18:43 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
> Hi,
>
> On 12/16/18 18:13, Simon Poole wrote:
>> If one tries to piece together the history of HOT, at least from an OSMF
>> point of view*, it is very clear that HOT was sold to the board by Mikel
>> at the time as ""our department" for humanitarian work".
> Well - it is quite possible that, at the time, everyone was happy not to
> have to deal with humanitarian issues and that, at the time, it *was* a
> good idea to simply let folks run with it.

Well that was the selling part, I believe it is fair to say that the
board members at the time had been convinced that this separate
organisation was a really good idea. But ...


> Considering how big HOT has
> become, I'm quite happy that they're not an OSMF working group, or else
> we'd have a constant case of the tail wagging the dog ;)

... there is this small question of money.

I know of at least one occasion during the time we are discussing in
which, being nice here, funding opportunities were diverted to HOT and
multiple later on in which interested donors were pointed to HOT,
without the OSMF receiving a single cent. Any reasonable agreement on
the establishment of HOT would have, a) laid down the rules on how the
name can be used, and b) required that a suitable percentage, likely
something between 10-20% of the funds received  would go to the OSMF as
partial support for the infrastructure HOT was building its not
unsuccessful business on.

Now we do actually have the tail wagging the dog in that the
organisation that was built with money that rightfully should have at
least partially gone to the OSMF is trying to outstrip the OSMF in every
aspect.


Simon



>
> I don't envision the OSMF running huge aid projects. But it could
> probably work to reclaim the "general interest in humanitarian mapping"
> as a core OSM(F) activity, while leaving the concrete execution of
> projects to bodies like HOT. It all depends on people willing to do it.
>
>> * I've done that mode than once, and always end up wondering what the
>> board was smoking at the time.
> I can say with confidence that no smoking of anything has happened
> during the in-person board meetings that I was part of. (At least not
> while we were in session.)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>

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